2018 NFL Offseason Thread -- Philadelphia Burning Edition

Two straight offseasons where a Bills player is arrested naked and out of their mind on synthetic weed.

Trust the Process.

Chanur said:

Bills are taking the mantle from the Cowboys as the official NFL character rehab team.

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Thats funny since Zay Jones dad was on those Criminal Cowboy teams

Jozu said:

Edit: I'm still laughing at Cathans suggesting the Browns take 2 QBs with their top 4 picks. So how would that work exactly? Would they develop both at the same time so they can then use one as trade bait like you suggested? Would they each play a half? How would they pay them? I'm intrigued.

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No, they'd obviously not develop either QB since they are the Browns but it'd still be a smarter attempt than drafting Barkley #1 overall.

They're rookie contracts, which are very affordable. No matter who they draft at 1 and 4 overall they're going to have to deal with that cap hit which they can since they have tons of cap space.

If the Browns did go outside the box and draft 2 QBs all they'd have to do is figure out which is better then hold the other one for a ransom when some other team needed a QB in the offseason or right after FA started. Odds are 1 of those QBs will bust though and they'd at least have 1.

For the record... Washington did draft 2 QBs a few years ago in the same draft class: RG3 - 2nd overall and Kirk Cousins in the 4th. That's not 2 first rounders but it worked for them for 5 years until the Redskins fucked up and let Cousins go.

Elway drafted 2 QBs in last year's draft between Sieman and Paxton Lynch.

It's probably true that teams wouldn't take 2 QBs in the same draft at picks 1 and 4 overall but I think there's definitely an argument that can be made that it could be very beneficial to stack the deck in their favor of finding a great QB considering franchise QBs come out of the first round like 95% of the time.

Cleveland has like 3 second round picks also. They could trade those and possibly some other picks to move back into round 1 to get 2 QBs and Barkley if they wanted.

So Cathan, you think the Redskins fucked up not paying Cousins all that money for just 3 years, fully guaranteed? I agree the situation could have been handled better, earlier, but there's some evidence he was always looking to get paid on the tags and hit free agency.

Also...taking one in 1st round and another in the 4th is leagues different than taking two in the top 5 overall picks. Cousins also didn't play at a starter's caliber for what, 3 years? He was pretty much the most turnover prone QB relative to his peers in history before 2015.

Barkley won't make it past the Colts at #6 overall if he's still there. I don't know what the Giants are thinking though. New regime seems to have confidence in Eli as a starter still, but you figure at some point they have to draft a potential successor. Having the #2 overall pick in a deep QB draft would seem to be the time to pull the trigger, but we'll see if Barkley doesn't go #1 overall.

Merrith said:

So Cathan, you think the Redskins fucked up not paying Cousins all that money for just 3 years, fully guaranteed? I agree the situation could have been handled better, earlier, but there's some evidence he was always looking to get paid on the tags and hit free agency.

Also...taking one in 1st round and another in the 4th is leagues different than taking two in the top 5 overall picks. Cousins also didn't play at a starter's caliber for what, 3 years? He was pretty much the most turnover prone QB relative to his peers in history before 2015.

Barkley won't make it past the Colts at #6 overall if he's still there. I don't know what the Giants are thinking though. New regime seems to have confidence in Eli as a starter still, but you figure at some point they have to draft a potential successor. Having the #2 overall pick in a deep QB draft would seem to be the time to pull the trigger, but we'll see if Barkley doesn't go #1 overall.

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I think the Skins made the right move to tag Cousins the first year. I think they should have just thrown the money at him instead of tagging him the second time though. Yes I know the quote from his agent that they were looking for free agency after the first franchise tag but the skins (and correct me if I'm wrong) are paying slightly more to an older and arguably worse QB in Smith then Cousins is getting from the Vikings.

Vimeseh said:

I think the Skins made the right move to tag Cousins the first year. I think they should have just thrown the money at him instead of tagging him the second time though. Yes I know the quote from his agent that they were looking for free agency after the first franchise tag but the skins (and correct me if I'm wrong) are paying slightly more to an older and arguably worse QB in Smith then Cousins is getting from the Vikings.

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I guess I'll have to correct you.

Smith's extension (which kicks in next year) averages $23M and change a year, while Cousins is getting $28M a year for the next 3 years from Minnesota.

Actual cap hit breakdown is a little different (partially because Smith still has 1 year under his old cheaper deal, and the way both contracts are structured. But for the next 3 years:

2018 Cap Hit: Smith $18.4M - Cousins $24M
2019 Cap Hit: Smith $20.4M - Cousins $29M
2020 Cap Hit: Smith $21.4M - Cousins $31M

After that Smith's cap hit goes up to around 24M in 2021 and I think 26M in 2022 (although Skins can get out of the deal pretty easily after 3rd year and very easily after 4th). Who knows what Cousins next deal will be, he'll still only be 32 and in his "prime" relatively speaking.

Merrith said:

So Cathan, you think the Redskins fucked up not paying Cousins all that money for just 3 years, fully guaranteed? I agree the situation could have been handled better, earlier, but there's some evidence he was always looking to get paid on the tags and hit free agency.

Also...taking one in 1st round and another in the 4th is leagues different than taking two in the top 5 overall picks. Cousins also didn't play at a starter's caliber for what, 3 years? He was pretty much the most turnover prone QB relative to his peers in history before 2015.

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I think the Skins should have paid Cousins what he wanted sooner, particularly after the first franchise tag. He proved his worth playing on the tag that first year. His stats were top 10ish weren't they? I mean listen to all the hype around Garrapolo right now and he only played 6 games. Cousins barely got more than Garrapolo and he is waaaaaaay more likely to be a solid starter. I don't know what to say about Cousins wanting to hit the free market though. That seems dumb since he could have been Theismanned and never made the millions off a guaranteed contract, huge risk there...

I agree, it is a stretch to take 2 QBs in the first round but we all know how valuable QBs are and the Browns have 2 legit shots at nailing down a good QB if they could pick 1 from 2 out of 3 right this year. You're also right, Cousins needed time to develop and he got it. I'm actually really happy with Cousins story. He came in with no expectations, learned, sat behind another guy or 2 until he got his chance, showed he had what it takes to start and got paid out the ass after 2 franchise tags.

One more thing, I still can't get over how civil yall motherfuckers have gotten up in here. I mean Grimcock and 20 other assholes used to do nothing but talk absolute madness in this thread, which is why I left for so long. I read all 36 pages of this thread and it's like who in the hell are these guys talking football? People actually speak mostly respectful to each other, debate without being complete assholes holding to their points no matter what... it's like the twilight zone... I hope I didn't summon a bunch of assholes to fuck this up by posting this. It's actually pretty damn nice to have decent football discussion. I always loved reading football threads since FoH board days because a lot of people were pretty damn intelligent about the game and everything surrounding it, just too many assholes after a while.

Chanur said:

Yes smart move by the Redskins by not having consistent talent at the most important position. Luckily for them Smith is a stud and will bail them out.

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No...I don't think that's likely either. At best he's equal to Cousins, likely slightly worse in some areas, better in a couple. But unlike Minnesota, we didn't have the roster to go all in on a fully guaranteed deal for that much when we have so many other holes. Thus, this deal. Which I don't totally like given what we gave up (Fuller) or the lack of finding a real long term answer.

Saving $23.8 million against the cap the next 3 years to help fill holes isn't the worst management job, though.

Cathan said:

I think the Skins should have paid Cousins what he wanted sooner, particularly after the first franchise tag. He proved his worth playing on the tag that first year. His stats were top 10ish weren't they? I mean listen to all the hype around Garrapolo right now and he only played 6 games. Cousins barely got more than Garrapolo and he is waaaaaaay more likely to be a solid starter. I don't know what to say about Cousins wanting to hit the free market though. That seems dumb since he could have been Theismanned and never made the millions off a guaranteed contract, huge risk there...

I agree, it is a stretch to take 2 QBs in the first round but we all know how valuable QBs are and the Browns have 2 legit shots at nailing down a good QB if they could pick 1 from 2 out of 3 right this year. You're also right, Cousins needed time to develop and he got it. I'm actually really happy with Cousins story. He came in with no expectations, learned, sat behind another guy or 2 until he got his chance, showed he had what it takes to start and got paid out the ass after 2 franchise tags.

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Guess you didn't read pages back when we were talking about it. He was offered a deal after his first year starting, but his agent wanted him to play under the tags and bet on himself to get to free agency. His stats were top 10, though last year they dropped a bit in some categories. Just for completion's sake, Garoppolo has played 7 games. Cousins deal is FULLY guaranteed and only for 3 seasons, when he can go out and likely sign another fully guaranteed deal for even more (also the Jets offered slightly more money than the Vikings did, but clearly Cousins took slightly less to go to the better team).

You're also leaving out the part where Cousins had his chance much earlier than you remember, and lost the job to Colt McCoy because he turned the ball over too much. Wasn't until another year and a half he got another chance, started not so great, but came on very strong over the final 10 games in 2015. Also played pretty well in 2016 (save for season ending pick against the Giants in a win and you're in game Week 17 against their backups), and slightly less well last year (though still good).

Obviously best case scenario would have been to lock up Cousins sooner to a cheaper long term deal, but there's enough questions out there whether that was ever him and his agent's plan, and which of Bruce Allen or former GMSM actually wanted to sign Cousins long term.

While I think it would be hilarious if the Browns drafted 2 QBs, I honestly think their best shot (obviously) is to trade their 4 to another QB team like the Bills and fleece them for more picks.

If that doesn't work, I'd consider drafting another DE. Yeah they have Ogbah and Jarret as their starters, but the best defenses in the league platoon the DLine with a good rotation (see Jacksonville for example). If they got Chubb, Jarret, and Ogbah splitting time 3 ways across 2 positions, especially if one of them can slide inside on 3rd down, they would be scary AF

Bills are talking to Browns about #1 supposedly. Trading with them for #4 doesn't make sense for Buffalo, b/c in that scenario Cleveland is almost certainly taking QB at #1, and Jets are clearly taking a QB at #3. Trading that much to move up to #4 for the 3rd QB (and that's hoping Giants go elsewhere with their pick) would be not smart.

I bet he'll still crack 1k yards. Dude is so fucking consistent. He's hit over 1k rushing in 9/13 seasons. That's crazy. I don't know if we'll ever see a back with that kind of longevity and consistency again.

Gore's also become more of a receiver again the last couple years. Early in his career was used more in that role, but it has been increased again the last few seasons a bit.