38 Studios

Tide27_sl

shitlord
124
0
I am just ready for everyone that has worked on an MMO to go out and get a job doing something else and let new blood take over. Quite frankly Im sick of the same people getting jobs for different companies making MMOs, and they all suck. Its the same rehashed shit over and over.

I dont know Moorgard, and all I can assume after previous work he has done, is that the next title himself and his group of friends get into will be a diaster as well.

I checked his Linkedin profile and it pretty much stated he worked on EQ2 and with 38 Studios. Everquest 2 was terrible in every sense of the word , the adventure packs were terrible, and the Echos of Faydar expansion had a very lackluster appeal and the community didnt like it either. He then moved to 38 where he obviously led a team to do nothing more than copy / paste WoW into another program. Having watched the gameplay video, damn near everything in the video from mini map location, to quest icons, to bag space, quest text , quest reward screens etc all looked identical to WoW.

Its easy to see why the MMO landscape is terrible. Here is his a few snippets from linkedin.


November 2006 - June 2009 (2 years 8 months)

I was hired to lay the groundwork for what will be the industry's best community team.

In leading up the content team, I work closely with R.A. Salvatore to bring the vision of his world to life in our upcoming MMO, codenamed Copernicus

Here is almost 3 years of complete wasted salary. Hired to lay the groundwork for the industries best community team? Are you freaking serious? The entire time this vaporware was being made, all that came out of anyones mouth was that " They would love to show it to you, share some info with you etc", but just couldnt. There was no community to speak of, not even tiny scraps of info for any fanbase that was supposedly trying to be built.

June 2009 - December 2011 (2 years 7 months)

As caretaker of the Copernicus IP, I make sure the tone and fiction of the world envisioned by R.A. Salvatore and Todd McFarlane is consistent across our MMOG, RPG, and other 38 Studios products

They never released more than 1 product and that product was mostly finished when they bought it. Again, another almost 3 years of wasted time and money on something that wasnt needed. How do you need 2 years and 7 months to flesh out "visions" for games that werent even on the horizon at the time.


I think its people like Moorgard that actually keep the industry down. I dont mean that in an insulting way, but its obvious to me that he has been a failure on many different mmo levels, and yet here he is again working on another with SoE...yet again..../sigh.

Worked on EQ2....lulz.
Worked for years with 38.../complete failure
Vanguard?
Omitted his team working with Epic due to Epic being generous and giving his team a job to help out in a time of need....and even the team couldnt work with Epic either....so they were canned from there as well..
.....
And now we have him with SoE again, which Im praying to God he has nothing to do with EQNext, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

Its not just Moorgard, its the entire industry doing this. The same nitwits that went through $300m on SwToR, in probably the most costly MMO diaster ever, have also found a new home getting ready to release yet another title.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
I'm not big on defending Devs b/c they wear big boy pants too but I can't blame him for 38 or EQ2. The buck stops with Curt the head guy, his position wasn't one to change that. Curt was downright stubborn on these forums. I appreciate the type of company he was trying to create for his employees but he was running before he could even walk.. EQ2 was Smed's fault.. Everyone in beta were saying the game needed more time to develop and he went ahead with the gold post anyway. The uproar continued about not releasing and they released. I'd love to know the number of beta testers that didn't purchase EQ2. That's the whole reason I went to WoW. I don't think he would come here and tell us how he felt about decisions that were being made at those times and if he agreed with them or not. From what I understand he was pretty solid on VG and is now working on EQN. I wish he would head over to the EQN thread and give us some insight tho. It's down right starving for it.
 

spronk

FPS noob
22,651
25,742
going through a posters linkedin/facebook/whatever history and selectively posting things out of it is a pretty shitty thing to do imo, I'm pretty sure all of us have done very stupid things in our lives but nobody wants that shit posted here by other people. Hate on the games and the studios, but its a pretty cowardly thing to start attacking individuals who post and shouldn't have to defend their careers on a video game forum.
 

YIMMY_sl

shitlord
67
-3
I am just ready for everyone that has worked on an MMO to go out and get a job doing something else and let new blood take over. Quite frankly Im sick of the same people getting jobs for different companies making MMOs, and they all suck. Its the same rehashed shit over and over.

I dont know Moorgard, and all I can assume after previous work he has done, is that the next title himself and his group of friends get into will be a diaster as well.

I checked his Linkedin profile and it pretty much stated he worked on EQ2 and with 38 Studios. Everquest 2 was terrible in every sense of the word , the adventure packs were terrible, and the Echos of Faydar expansion had a very lackluster appeal and the community didnt like it either. He then moved to 38 where he obviously led a team to do nothing more than copy / paste WoW into another program. Having watched the gameplay video, damn near everything in the video from mini map location, to quest icons, to bag space, quest text , quest reward screens etc all looked identical to WoW.

Its easy to see why the MMO landscape is terrible. Here is his a few snippets from linkedin.


November 2006 - June 2009 (2 years 8 months)

I was hired to lay the groundwork for what will be the industry's best community team.

In leading up the content team, I work closely with R.A. Salvatore to bring the vision of his world to life in our upcoming MMO, codenamed Copernicus

Here is almost 3 years of complete wasted salary. Hired to lay the groundwork for the industries best community team? Are you freaking serious? The entire time this vaporware was being made, all that came out of anyones mouth was that " They would love to show it to you, share some info with you etc", but just couldnt. There was no community to speak of, not even tiny scraps of info for any fanbase that was supposedly trying to be built.

June 2009 - December 2011 (2 years 7 months)

As caretaker of the Copernicus IP, I make sure the tone and fiction of the world envisioned by R.A. Salvatore and Todd McFarlane is consistent across our MMOG, RPG, and other 38 Studios products

They never released more than 1 product and that product was mostly finished when they bought it. Again, another almost 3 years of wasted time and money on something that wasnt needed. How do you need 2 years and 7 months to flesh out "visions" for games that werent even on the horizon at the time.


I think its people like Moorgard that actually keep the industry down. I dont mean that in an insulting way, but its obvious to me that he has been a failure on many different mmo levels, and yet here he is again working on another with SoE...yet again..../sigh.

Worked on EQ2....lulz.
Worked for years with 38.../complete failure
Vanguard?
Omitted his team working with Epic due to Epic being generous and giving his team a job to help out in a time of need....and even the team couldnt work with Epic either....so they were canned from there as well..
.....
And now we have him with SoE again, which Im praying to God he has nothing to do with EQNext, but I wouldnt hold my breath.

Its not just Moorgard, its the entire industry doing this. The same nitwits that went through $300m on SwToR, in probably the most costly MMO diaster ever, have also found a new home getting ready to release yet another title.
I absolutely agree with you, but it's just the nature of the creative industries. Whether it is gaming, entertainment, music...it's really about who you know and previous work. It does take a while to cycle through, but eventually there will be a lot of new blood surely but slowly.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,821
Are you kidding? Any MMO that has to completely scrap their subscription model because they can't compete with an almost 10 year old game is a failed MMO. I highly doubt that DCUO, WAR, LOTRO, SWTOR, TERA, TSW and whatever else planned to do as horribly as they did in their long-term subscription numbers. I don't think WAR, LOTRO, DCUO and SWTOR were approved just to make "decent cash", they were intended to be cash cows because investors saw what WoW did and assumed that popular IP's could do even better.

Except for Rift, Rift wanted to be a mediocre game from the start.
Lol, if every game since WoW was really a failure then they would have stopped making them years ago. The fact that new mmos are launched every month just goes to show that they are still cash cows, and quite successful from a business standpoint. They very rarely shut down because they MAKE MONEY.

You are dealing with 2 definitions of failure here. The investor's and the gamer's. The two have very little to do with each other.
 

Gaige

Legal Ephebophile
1,912
116
Worked on EQ2....lulz.

Omitted his team working with Epic due to Epic being generous and giving his team a job to help out in a time of need....and even the team couldnt work with Epic either....so they were canned from there as well.

And now we have him with SoE again, which Im praying to God he has nothing to do with EQNext, but I wouldnt hold my breath.
EQ2 is very popular still and it'll be 10 years old soon. It was successful despite going against WoW in it's prime. Can't say that aboutanyother MMO. As for omitting Epic, he never worked for Epic, the BHG guys were picked up by Epic.
 

Utnayan

I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
<Gold Donor>
16,300
12,063
10 years old and you like it? Get out of here
I could say something here... But I am a new poster now.

Someone do it. You know what I am thinking since this is in reply to Gaige.

With that said, EoF was the best expansion EQ2 had. Rumor has it, totally unconfirmed, that Hartsman is back at SoE. If this is true, it would mean great things for EQ Next. Otherwise, Butler, McQuaid, Gorgenson? Away we go again, round and round
frown.png
There is sophomore jinx, and then there is just outright stupidity in trusting any of these people. Unfortunately.

Hopefully I am proved wrong. But there aren't 4 strikes in baseball either.
 

supertouch_sl

shitlord
1,858
3
why do people hate eq2? aside from the ridiculous amount of abilities and the tendency to rehash a few zones, i thought it was a good mmo. it had a healthy community, a lot of the quests were enjoyable by today's standards, and the zones were fun to explore.
 

Lost Ranger_sl

shitlord
1,027
4
The ability amount would be my biggest gripe. It isn't a bad game, but I found combat to be a chore since I had to manage like 7 hotbars worth of abilities. That probably the biggest thing keeping me from trying it again. Combat is just not enjoyable when you have to play your keyboard like a piano to be effective. A secondary problem that goes along with that is the lack of effort on their end to fix the problem. People have complained about it for years.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
You can consolidate tons of abilities into single macros, just like Rift. But this largely depends on the class you play. And with 24 classes,well, odds of your class being a worthless piece of shit is alarmingly high.

Also this thread:

rrr_img_13800.jpg
 

Sabbat

Trakanon Raider
1,833
760
EQ2 at release had massive problems. The dislike that players like myself voiced was over:

Shared XP debt.
Broken instance missions/group combat (scaling and function).
Crafting (there's having to depend on other crafts to get shit made, and then there's EQ2s level of bullshit to get shit made. I was a spellcrafter.)
Complete lack of solo content over level 15.
Broken mob abilities that would randomly one shot.
Bloated skills.
One dimensional questing.
A graphics engine that was supposed to cater for the next-gen tech but didn't actually scale with the next-gen tech, meaning that throwing more horsepower at it, did virtually nothing to the performance.

Played it again a few years after Hartsman had his way with it, crafting was awesome, performance was shit, skill bloat was worse, questing was a tad better and solo options had been added, and shared xp debt was removed. Had a good time for a few months.
 

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,375
1,077
EQ2 at release had massive problems. The dislike that players like myself voiced was over:

Shared XP debt.
Broken instance missions/group combat (scaling and function).
Crafting (there's having to depend on other crafts to get shit made, and then there's EQ2s level of bullshit to get shit made. I was a spellcrafter.)
Complete lack of solo content over level 15.
Broken mob abilities that would randomly one shot.
Bloated skills.
One dimensional questing.
A graphics engine that was supposed to cater for the next-gen tech but didn't actually scale with the next-gen tech, meaning that throwing more horsepower at it, did virtually nothing to the performance.

Played it again a few years after Hartsman had his way with it, crafting was awesome, performance was shit, skill bloat was worse, questing was a tad better and solo options had been added, and shared xp debt was removed. Had a good time for a few months.
Looking at Rift you have to wonder if he ever even saw the skill bloat as a problem. Rift was a poster-child for skill bloat. I think my dps cleric had a macro with 10 abilities in it that I just spammed, totally mind boggling design.

Atleast in recent releases, GW2 and kinda darkfall UW (even if it is complete crap) we have started to see some movement on dealing with the skill bloat, after years and years of it just getting worse every release.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,421
37,536
Man, Heartsman is overrated IMO. He worked on EQ2 and before him EQ2 was crap and after he left EQ2 was just a bit less crappy. WOW!

Then he goes on to do Rift which was probably the most boring sterile game I ever played.
 

Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
why do people hate eq2?aside from the ridiculous amount of abilitiesand the tendency to rehash a few zones, i thought it was a good mmo. it had a healthy community, a lot of the quests were enjoyable by today's standards, and the zones were fun to explore.
That pretty much covers it. If they had simply dropped EQ2s idiotic combat system and placed EQs on top the game immediately would have been a fuckton better. The overall design and heroic opportunity system remains terrible.

There were a lot of other small problems and the game definitely was not well polished, but the combat system was and remains terrible and the games biggest issue, in my opinion.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Man, Heartsman is overrated IMO. He worked on EQ2 and before him EQ2 was crap and after he left EQ2 was just a bit less crappy. WOW!

Then he goes on to do Rift which was probably the most boring sterile game I ever played.
What he said