Abortion
- Thread starter Julian The Apostate
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TheBeagle
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Better watch what you say, we aren't terribly far from being able to do just that. We've had the capability to manufacture synthetic mRNA and subsequently, an in-vitro(test tube) protein synthesizing system from 'a bunch of chemicals' since the 1960's. Now that the entire human genome has been mapped it's not much of a stretch to imagine building a human from the ground up without the use of gametes.
Venter has already created a single celled, completely synthetic, reproducing organism. It's only a matter of scale to spin that up into a eukaryote.
I know, that's why I gave you a goal. I know we can reproduce a lot of 'life' but get back to me when we CREATE a human from nothing. Clone also. When we do that I say God doesn't exist. Until then I feel thatabortionis wrong.
If you think there isn't a few hundred labs out there trying to clone a person right now you are out of your mind. The minute they successful do it you will hear about it and then it will no longer be considered unethical.
Once they do successfully clone humans, I am going to open a business that aborts cloned fetuses for stem cells to sell.
Eomer
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If you really think this, you're an idiot. No one reputable is attempting to clone humans because they'd lose whatever funding they have, be expelled from whatever university or lab they work for, and more or less be exiled from the scientific community.
ZyyzYzzy
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Okay. They're probably labs run by Transgender God hating faggots, right?
I guess you are quite wrong.
In May, 2013 the group of scientists published a report of successful human cloning [4]. The approach involved the somatic cell nuclear transfer from human fibroblasts to oocytes and resulted in viable embryos developing to the blastocyst stage. The authors managed to obtain embryonic stem cell from the blastocysts which can lead to therapeutic cloning. It remained unclear however if the cloned embryos are capable of further development as no such experiments were attempted.
ZyyzYzzy
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So you morally object toabortionat any stage, but have no objection to human cloning? Link to the primary literature, a peer reviewed article (I'm sure you've never read or published one) on that human cloning please. Nevermind I found what you mentioned. They used what I described above but only took it to the blastocyst stage. They gave it anabortion, you mad? Also, I still want the peer reviewed article they published on it.
Eomer
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They're doing that for stem cell research. Not to clone humans. Right in your quote it says that they had no intention of proceeding further. If you say that someone is trying to clone a human, that means that they're implanting those blastocysts in to surrogate mothers in order for them to be gestated and carried to birth.
Anyone doing that? No? ZyyzYzzy was absolutely correct: no one is attempting that because it's incredibly unethical, not because we don't know how or that it's even all that difficult.
I have read plenty on cloning and stem cells. Don't assume. Not all Christians have a backwards view of science. What do you define as "any stage"abortion? I am not against preventing early implantation. I am against reaching in and terminating. What does this have to do with a stance on human cloning?
Explain what you find reprehensible about human cloning? If it's just tissue and organs that you can abort at any time why not clone it also?
Masahito Tachibana, Paula Amato, Michelle Sparman, Nuria Marti Gutierrez, Rebecca Tippner-Hedges, Hong Ma, Eunju Kang, Alimujiang Fulati, Hyo-Sang Lee, Hathaitip Sritanaudomchai, Keith Masterson, Janine Larson, Deborah Eaton, Karen Sadler-Fredd, David Battaglia, David Lee, Diana Wu, Jeffrey Jensen, Phillip Patton, Sumita Gokhale, Richard L. Stouffer, Don Wolf, and Shoukhrat Mitalipov "Human Embryonic Stem Cells Derived by Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer" Cell (2013)
http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(13)00571-0
If you don't think people are taking it one step further also you are putting blinders on. I know this study stopped at a certain point and they made a lot of progress up to that point. There are other groups out there that you know and I know are going past the draconian idea that human cloning is wrong.
Why don't you explain to me why human cloning is wrong butabortionis not. I already challenged ZyyzYzzy to that.
ZyyzYzzy
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Did you read the article, because read what I posted. They did a somatic cell nuclear transfer. If you cannot see the difference between bringing a fully cloned human being to term over aborting a blastocyst, and the ethical ramifications of the first then I don;t know what to say to you. Are you not against cloning because the Bible says nothing about it?
Still none of you have explained:
a.) Why human cloning is bad.
b.) How you know there are no labs trying to clone humans.
How many labs tried cloning a mammal until the first one was successful? Hundreds. How many were public? That wasn't frowned upon and they all kept it private so as to not invite the stigma of it all.
Exactly. So why would there not be even thousands of labs attempting this under a massive amount of privacy?
TheBeagle
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I never took the position that human cloning is bad, wtf would I explain that to you?
I don't think you understand how much is at stake for any labs that are capable of the type of experiments you are talking about. We are talking hundreds of millions of dollars in public funding. There are extremely strict protocols involved in securing and maintaining that funding. Going outside of the experimental design that is being funded will not only lose your grant money, but it can also land your ass in jail. The idea that hundreds of labs around the world ore conducting secret, unethical research is preposterous. You don't have a single shred of evidence that this is happening beyond your own intuition.
I don't think you understand how much is at stake for any labs that are capable of the type of experiments you are talking about. We are talking hundreds of millions of dollars in public funding. There are extremely strict protocols involved in securing and maintaining that funding. Going outside of the experimental design that is being funded will not only lose your grant money, but it can also land your ass in jail. The idea that hundreds of labs around the world ore conducting secret, unethical research is preposterous. You don't have a single shred of evidence that this is happening beyond your own intuition.