Abortion

TheBeagle

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If you don't realize that it's the same exact process up to the point where they stop and just don't finish it then .....
Ya because implanting a cloned blastocyst into a living, human uterus is so easy to pull off and keep quiet so the researchers involved aren't convicted of felonies and ostracized from the scientific community. I'm sure it's happening EVERY day, in labs all around the world!
 

ZyyzYzzy

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a_skeleton_03, do you have Holiday liberty leave and are extremely bored today? Full troll mode all over the place for you.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Ya because implanting a cloned blastocyst into a living, human uterus is so easy to pull off and keep quiet so the researchers involved aren't convicted of felonies and ostracized from the scientific community. I'm sure it's happening EVERY day, in labs all around the world!
Probably not every day, they probably have a lot of back to the drawing board time.

You were acting like the therapeutic process was entirely different though. Like nothing from that process is even used for actual human cloning. Therapeutic is just the first half of reproductive cloning.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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You know implanting an embryo has been done countless times before, right? Ever hear of In vitro Fertilization?
 

a_skeleton_03

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You know implanting an embryo has been done countless times before, right? Ever hear of In vitro Fertilization?
I know right. It's almost like it isn't actually possible to clone a human, it's not that simple is it. It should be.

You really need to do some research on the subject, even 10 minutes of googling will explain the process to you.
 

TheBeagle

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Dude, you just bet everything you believe and stand for that human cloning isn't possible, then spend the rest of the day arguing that 'hundreds' of labs are actively doing that same thing. Makes no sense, hence why everyone thinks you are just trolling at this point.
 

a_skeleton_03

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Dude, you just bet everything you believe and stand for that human cloning isn't possible, then spend the rest of the day arguing that 'hundreds' of labs are actively doing that same thing. Makes no sense, hence why everyone thinks you are just trolling at this point.
They are actively TRYING.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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I know right. It's almost like it isn't actually possible to clone a human, it's not that simple is it. It should be.

You really need to do some research on the subject, even 10 minutes of googling will explain the process to you.
I think you need to lay off the googling. You contradict yourself saying that it isn't possible, yet hundred of labs are doing it.
 

TheBeagle

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So if you believe so many labs are trying, then why do you think it will never eventually be successful? You haven't been paying attention to scientific progress over the last two hundred years if you think cloning a human is some sort of insurmountable problem. If they've done it with other higher mammals, what's stopping them from eventually being able to do it with humans? Magic?
 

ZyyzYzzy

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So if you believe so many labs are trying, then why do you think it will never eventually be successful? You haven't been paying attention to scientific progress over the last two hundred years if you think cloning a human is some sort of insurmountable problem. If they've done it with other higher mammals, what's stopping them from eventually being able to do it with humans? Magic?
It seems to conflict with his religious faith, hence is impossible.
 

TheBeagle

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Oh crap, i forgot that the roadblock holding up this conversation was 'a wizard did it!' Makes perfect sense now. What a waste of time, I'm out.
 

a_skeleton_03

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I think you need to lay off the googling. You contradict yourself saying that it isn't possible, yet hundred of labs are doing it.
Ok let me walk this through step by step.

1.) Therapeutic cloning is the first step of the process to reproductive cloning.
2.) Reproductive cloning involves taking that and then implanting it.
3.) People have tried this in the past and failed despite saying that they did it.
4.) Just because step 2 is failing doesn't mean that labs won't keep trying it. That's the very point of experiments.
5.) My opinion is that you can't clone a human.
6.) If we do though I will admit I am wrong and therefore God does not exist.

There is 0 trolling in this entire thing.
 

Izo

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I know, that's why I gave you a goal. I know we can reproduce a lot of 'life' but get back to me when we CREATE a human from nothing. Clone also. When we do that I say God doesn't exist. Until then I feel thatabortionis wrong.
Would you define the 'nothing' that would make you say God doesn't exist? Something can come from nothing, you know - Lawrence Krauss
wink.png
 

a_skeleton_03

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So if you believe so many labs are trying, then why do you think it will never eventually be successful? You haven't been paying attention to scientific progress over the last two hundred years if you think cloning a human is some sort of insurmountable problem. If they've done it with other higher mammals, what's stopping them from eventually being able to do it with humans? Magic?
It's not even being tried is what is stopping it isn't that your party stance here?
 

Eomer

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It's not even being tried is what is stopping it isn't that your party stance here?
Tea already explained why it's not happening, and why it's unethical. Someone probably could clone a human being and even bring a baby to term at this point, but there's a very, very good chance it would be some horrible mutant flipper baby. And even if it does turn out perfectly normal and healthy, it raises a multitude of other questions (is it the same person legally as the original? Who are it's parents and legal guardians? So on and so forth).
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Ok let me walk this through step by step.

1.) Therapeutic cloning is the first step of the process to reproductive cloning.
2.) Reproductive cloning involves taking that and then implanting it.
3.) People have tried this in the past and failed despite saying that they did it.
4.) Just because step 2 is failing doesn't mean that labs won't keep trying it. That's the very point of experiments.
5.) My opinion is that you can't clone a human.
6.) If we do though I will admit I am wrong and therefore God does not exist.

There is 0 trolling in this entire thing.
Show me one example of a peer reviewed article or hell any where a lab was making zygotes via cloning that progressed past 7days in vitro and then attempted to implant them into a uterus.

Do you know why there is such a high failure rate for somatic cell nuclear transfer as a method of cloning? Why some cell types are more conducive to the process over others? Please, explain to me since you are an expert. Do you have an extensive knowledge on epigenetics and the state DNA is in when it is in a skin cell opposed to an egg? What type of media can you culture skin cells in to improve rates of nuclear transplantation? How do these differ from growth factors needed to induce pluripotency?
 

a_skeleton_03

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Show me one example of a peer reviewed article or hell any where a lab was making zygotes via cloning that progressed past 7days in vitro and then attempted to implant them into a uterus.

Do you know why there is such a high failure rate for somatic cell nuclear transfer as a method of cloning? Why some cell types are more conducive to the process over others? Please, explain to me since you are an expert. Do you have an extensive knowledge on epigenetics and the state DNA is in when it is in a skin cell opposed to an egg? What type of media can you culture skin cells in to improve rates of nuclear transplantation? How do these differ from growth factors needed to induce pluripotency?
You are stating that because it's hard is why nobody is doing it.

Because it's hard is the EXACT reason someone out there IS doing it.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Tea already explained why it's not happening, and why it's unethical. Someone probably could clone a human being and even bring a baby to term at this point, but there's a very, very good chance it would be some horrible mutant flipper baby. And even if it does turn out perfectly normal and healthy, it raises a multitude of other questions (is it the same person legally as the original? Who are it's parents and legal guardians? So on and so forth).
There would most likely be defects. The main reason why somatic cell nuclear transfer fails so much is due to the genomes of different cell types being activated in different ways. So when SCNT is done, the DNA does not properly respond to the environment of the egg cytoplasm and fails, or it develops into a teratoma or something crazy looking.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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You are stating that because it's hard is why nobody is doing it.

Because it's hard is the EXACT reason someone out there IS doing it.
With other animals to better understand it. You don't jump directly into human testing with something. You do know we are extremely similar to mice and can attribute a vast majority of our understanding of diseases and treatments to expieiments on them, right?