Abortion

hodj

hodj

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
Ok let me walk this through step by step.

1.) Therapeutic cloning is the first step of the process to reproductive cloning.
2.) Reproductive cloning involves taking that and then implanting it.
3.) People have tried this in the past and failed despite saying that they did it.
4.) Just because step 2 is failing doesn't mean that labs won't keep trying it. That's the very point of experiments.
5.) My opinion is that you can't clone a human.
6.) If we do though I will admit I am wrong and therefore God does not exist.

There is 0 trolling in this entire thing.
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Not bagging on you or attacking you, anything.

Can you give a reason for why you think that humans, in particular, are not capable of being cloned?

It SHOULD boil down to (somewhat) basic chemistry. If you place the proper molecules (enzymes and other catalysts and amino acids) and proper genomic coding to allow for proper protein formation, then the rest of the process should be virtually automatic. The complexity would be in timing the proper addition of the proper molecular components. For instance, the HOX genes code for a protein which guides proper limb development in pretty much all animals. Period. As long as this protein structure is properly assembled and distributed within the tissues of the developing embryo, limbs will develop. Period. You can place this protein in portions of the body where it doesn't belong, and new limbs will develop there. Its been done in all sorts of animals, starting with the fruit flies it was originally discovered in. There's absolutely nothing to stop them. I know that this isn't common knowledge, so that's why I"m pointing it out to you. The evidence is already there scientifically that its possible, basically.

Hell, DNA is copied and reassembled in sections molecularly through polymerase chain techniques and all you do in that situation is place copies of the DNA section in question in a test tube with the primers, heat it, let it cool, heat it again, let it cool again, do that several times and you get hundreds of thousands of copies of that sequence for research purposes. This is done for simple DNA tests to determine things like paternity or criminal behavior as well.
 
ZyyzYzzy

ZyyzYzzy

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hodj_sl said:
Hell, DNA is copied and reassembled in sections molecularly through polymerase chain techniques and all you do in that situation is place copies of the DNA section in question in a test tube with the primers, heat it, let it cool, heat it again, let it cool again, do that several times and you get hundreds of thousands of copies of that sequence for research purposes. This is done for simple DNA tests to determine things like paternity or criminal behavior as well.
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I literally do this for hours each and every day at work. Fuck primer/probe design.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
So you are basing your belief that humans cannot be cloned on zero scientific knowledge or evidence. Brilliant.
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Yup. Just like you are basing your viewpoint that nobody is even attempting human cloning based on your gut that every single lab out there is suckling at the grant teat and nobody in the entire world would try to buck the system ever.

I guess we are the same person.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Eomer_sl said:
So you're against abortion, but don't see a problem with conducting science experiments on human embryos/fetuses and aborting them if shit goes sideways?

Makes sense.
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Just because I am against it doesn't mean you are. You are the one saying that's why people aren't going to do human cloning testing because there will be defects. You are pro abortion (I am assuming, I don't rightly remember) so there is no issue there.
 
hodj

hodj

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a_skeleton_03_sl said:
I just think there is some unquantifiable reason. Like I said, if it did happen my entire paradigm would shift.
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Fair enough. Just understand that as long as our understanding of atomic valence shell bonding is accurate, which so far its been pretty darn accurate outside of those extreme cases where everything breaks down, once all the proper components are in place in the proper proportions, the rest should simply be a result of fundamentals in chemistry that are demonstrably visible every single day. Like the entire reason your body is held together instead of flying off into billions of separate, miniscule pieces, type fundamentals.

So its not like its a huge stretch that human cloning is possible, from a scientific standpoint, is all I'm saying.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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hodj_sl said:
Fair enough. Just understand that as long as our understanding of atomic valence shell bonding is accurate, which so far its been pretty darn accurate outside of those extreme cases where everything breaks down, once all the proper components are in place in the proper proportions, the rest should simply be a result of fundamentals in chemistry that are demonstrably visible every single day. Like the entire reason your body is held together instead of flying off into billions of separate, miniscule pieces, type fundamentals.

So its not like its a huge stretch that human cloning is possible, from a scientific standpoint, is all I'm saying.
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If it happens then there is no God.

But NOBODY is trying though so until then I guess I get to live in a fog of delusion since NOBODY will try it.
 
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Tea_sl

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"Defects" are not always apparent antenatally, and even if they were you've managed to sidestep the legal minefield side of the debate entirely.
 
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Tea_sl

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"Defects" are not always apparent antenatally, and even if they were you've managed to sidestep the legal minefield side of the debate entirely.

Your entire argument has been reducible to an appeal to ignorance from two simultaneous fronts in that human cloning can't happen because magic and that human cloning is being actively pursued because there is no evidence to the contrary. Your sole evidence has so far been a fringe a religion straight out of Ancient Aliens, who did not demonstrate the technological understanding to complete the task. You elevated the fringe to the mainstream in a marvelous display of grasping at straws. It has been a thoroughly lazy argument from the onset. Even your theological conclusions are lazy. Do better next time.\

edit does not = post. Oh well.
 
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a_skeleton_03

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Tea_sl said:
"Defects" are not always apparent antenatally, and even if they were you've managed to sidestep the legal minefield side of the debate entirely.

Your entire argument has been reducible to an appeal to ignorance from two simultaneous fronts in that human cloning can't happen because magic and that human cloning is being actively pursued because there is no evidence to the contrary. Your sole evidence has so far been a fringe a religion straight out of Ancient Aliens, who did not demonstrate the technological understanding to complete the task. You elevated the fringe to the mainstream in a marvelous display of grasping at straws. It has been a thoroughly lazy argument from the onset. Even your theological conclusions are lazy. Do better next time.\

edit does not = post. Oh well.
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So are you stating that there are ZERO people out there trying to clone a human reproductively?
 
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Tea_sl

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Don't know. I think if there are they are likely lacking the expertise and proper infrastructure/materials. Any lab capable of making a proper scientific go at reproductive human cloning is almost surely in a country which has strict laws not do so, in addition to the ethical concerns that have already been laid out. I do think it's likely that as technology and knowledge disseminates that either a fringe group will succeed or advancements will be made in such a way that legal frameworks are put in place to move cloning to the mainstream community.

Your argument was based on capable scientists actively pursuing and subsequently failing to clone humans to which you have only offered ignorance.
 
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