Ancient Civilizations

pharmakos · Nov 9, 2023

TJT said:
You need to think about it on a macro scale. What you're talking about would take centuries to recover from. Let's use your example and a solar flare fries everything more advanced than a transistor radio. But doesn't physically harm any person or structure directly. Boom every modern factory, pc component fabrication, data stores, any car older than 2000 or whatever. The ability to build 19th century factories would have to be rediscovered as we would have to regress all of the supporting technologies, forging, manufacturing techniques, labor force, etc back to that level. Livestock/horses to do labor wouldn't be in abundance and would take another generation to get used to using them again. Without the ability to produce nitrates from the air like we have since the early 20th century critical fertilizers would be in short supply. I mean it would be so ugly I don't even want to think about it.

Yes the world would be survivable, in a way, but that transition period would leave millions upon millions dead.

Eh we'd still have internal combustion engines, not everything has a computer chip.

Cad · Nov 9, 2023

mkopec said:
And then imagine the pyramids themselves. Forget the cutting of the stones.... 3.2 MILLION stones, 2.5 tons average weight of one stone plus some 8000 tons of granite were imported from Aswan located at more than 800 km away.

And they want us to believe that these things were originally built by 4,000 workers over the course of 20 years using strength, sleds and ropes. So thats moving some 445 of those 3.2 million stones per day, thats an average of 30 some stones per hour if they worked 16 hrs per day non stop. Thats like taking a sled putting it under an Escalade, thats one challenge. And then using ropes to pull that escalade up a hill then setting it in a precise way next to another escalade 445 times a day for 20 yrs.

And then there is the idea that they built these dirt/sand, whatever, ramps as the pyramid got higher, right? So there is another challenge. So you make dirt ramps going up hundreds of feet at the right angle so the workers can drag the fucking Escalades up the ramp with sleighs and ropes. Now experiments were made showed 18 men could drag the block over a 1-in-4 incline ramp, at a rate of 18 metres per minute (1 ft/s). sO they would have to have 1,600 foot long ramps at 1/4 slope to get to 400 feet. Thats like 1/3 of a mile.

Oh and then they say these giant granite blocks, some of which weighed 90 tones were ferried down the nile. And all they have found was fucking canoes from that era. Imagine the size of the boat or raft needed to ferry a 90 tone block.

Just none of this shit makes sense.

How did the Romans move all the stones for the works they did? E.g. Colosseum? There was also some like giant pantagonal harbor they built.

Pyramids are about 2000 years before the big Roman works, but do we have documentation of how the Romans moved such things?

Seems to me like a lot of the mystery of the Egyptians has just been that not much survived from them so we're left with a lot of guesswork.

mkopec · Nov 9, 2023

Cad said:
How did the Romans move all the stones for the works they did? E.g. Colosseum? There was also some like giant pantagonal harbor they built.

Pyramids are about 2000 years before the big Roman works, but do we have documentation of how the Romans moved such things?

Seems to me like a lot of the mystery of the Egyptians has just been that not much survived from them so we're left with a lot of guesswork.

Coliseum was built using more "modern" style using concrete, bricks and tiles. Most of it was smaller blocks, lots of concrete and even iron to bind it all together. 300 tones of iron. Not to discount this as a marvel at the time, but the two are not comparable. Not to mention romans already had the wheel, they knew about using pulleys and other ideas like having simple cranes.

Chukzombi · Nov 9, 2023

mkopec said:
And then imagine the pyramids themselves. Forget the cutting of the stones.... 3.2 MILLION stones, 2.5 tons average weight of one stone plus some 8000 tons of granite were imported from Aswan located at more than 800 km away.

And they would have to be set perfectly because the errors only compound the error as you go higher.

And they want us to believe that these things were originally built by 4,000 workers over the course of 20 years using strength, sleds and ropes. So thats moving some 445 of those 3.2 million stones per day, thats an average of 30 some stones per hour if they worked 16 hrs per day non stop. Thats like taking a sled putting it under an Escalade, thats one challenge. And then using ropes to pull that escalade up a hill then setting it in a precise way next to another escalade 445 times a day for 20 yrs.

And then there is the idea that they built these dirt/sand, whatever, ramps as the pyramid got higher, right? So there is another challenge. So you make dirt ramps going up hundreds of feet at the right angle so the workers can drag the fucking Escalades up the ramp with sleighs and ropes. Now experiments were made showed 18 men could drag the block over a 1-in-4 incline ramp, at a rate of 18 metres per minute (1 ft/s). sO they would have to have 1,600 foot long ramps at 1/4 slope to get to 400 feet. Thats like 1/3 of a mile.

Oh and then they say these giant granite blocks, some of which weighed 90 tones were ferried down the nile. And all they have found was fucking canoes from that era. Imagine the size of the boat or raft needed to ferry a 90 tone block.

Just none of this shit makes sense.

the answer that morons throw at you is that they had hundreds of thousands of slaves zerging themselves at every task because these highly polished and precise stones could only be produced by low skilled slaves who are starving.

Ukerric · Nov 10, 2023

Chukzombi said:
the answer that morons throw at you is that they had hundreds of thousands of slaves zerging themselves at every task because these highly polished and precise stones could only be produced by low skilled slaves who are starving.

Although modern historians seem to have debunked the myth of slave armies building the pyramids. It was mostly peasants (like almost all of them) mobilized while the Nile was overflowing, their fields were being fertilized, and they had little else to do.

Mind you, that's almost the same thing - they weren't definitively professional stonecutters/builders. But they were a lot more motivated and treated than lowly slaves.

latheboy · Nov 10, 2023

How did they cut all those huge arse bits of stone eleventy thousand years ago? And all around the world???
Then move them!!!

Except Australia, we don't have any cool shit unfortunately..

Simple.. they asked the hollow earth people for help..

If I could do the time machine thing, I'd just go back and watch how it was done..
Probably use my "Copper hammer and chisel" ( period correct) and tag something with dick pics..

latheboy · Nov 10, 2023

My dad "was" a Mason ( stone cutters unight) and he once told me that it all started forever ago as a way to keep the knowledge of creation and maths a secret.. don't know what level he got to, flying penguin or something.. but said each level offered more information and new insight about the old world..
I was have tempted to join just to learn..

Do we have any old members that can say anything about the old ways..
Fuck you MFF don't answer..

TJT · Nov 10, 2023

Cad said:
How did the Romans move all the stones for the works they did? E.g. Colosseum? There was also some like giant pantagonal harbor they built.

Pyramids are about 2000 years before the big Roman works, but do we have documentation of how the Romans moved such things?

Seems to me like a lot of the mystery of the Egyptians has just been that not much survived from them so we're left with a lot of guesswork.

This is the big mystery. Later constructions like the Colosseum, the Parthenon, and so on all used much more manageable sizes of stones. These don't take any imagination to understand how they were moved and shaped. Take for example Roman/Greek columns. These were actually built in pieces and assembled. Whereas tons of the Egyptian stuff is cut out of gigantic singular pieces.

The further mystery is that the Giza pyramids are some of the most ancient of pyramids in Egypt. Ones built later seemingly lost the ability to make them the way Giza pyramids were made or alternatively never had the ability in the first place. The J-something pyramid was built at least several centuries after the Giza pyramids and it was built out of fired mud bricks that were then encased in polished casing stones. This ended in a visually similar result but without the effort of shaping, quarrying, moving, and emplacing 100 ton granite stones across hundreds of kilometers.

latheboy · Nov 10, 2023

Without doing the research, are the pyramids in the neighboring countries older or younger than the Giza pyramids?

TJT · Nov 10, 2023

No idea about other countries but the Giza pyramids are generally agreed to have been built during the 4th dynasty of the Old Kingdom. Making them some of the very oldest.

List of Egyptian pyramids - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Kharzette · Nov 10, 2023

There's no way to date stone other than weathering. So really they don't have the foggiest how old any of this stuff is. Best thing they can do is check the "layer" it is in for organic material but that makes about a dozen bad assumptions.

Chris · Nov 10, 2023

mkopec said:
And then imagine the pyramids themselves. Forget the cutting of the stones.... 3.2 MILLION stones, 2.5 tons average weight of one stone plus some 8000 tons of granite were imported from Aswan located at more than 800 km away.

And they would have to be set perfectly because the errors only compound the error as you go higher.

And they want us to believe that these things were originally built by 4,000 workers over the course of 20 years using strength, sleds and ropes. So thats moving some 445 of those 3.2 million stones per day, thats an average of 30 some stones per hour if they worked 16 hrs per day non stop. Thats like taking a sled putting it under an Escalade, thats one challenge. And then using ropes to pull that escalade up a hill then setting it in a precise way next to another escalade 445 times a day for 20 yrs.

And then there is the idea that they built these dirt/sand, whatever, ramps as the pyramid got higher, right? So there is another challenge. So you make dirt ramps going up hundreds of feet at the right angle so the workers can drag the fucking Escalades up the ramp with sleighs and ropes. Now experiments were made showed 18 men could drag the block over a 1-in-4 incline ramp, at a rate of 18 metres per minute (1 ft/s). sO they would have to have 1,600 foot long ramps at 1/4 slope to get to 400 feet. Thats like 1/3 of a mile.

Oh and then they say these giant granite blocks, some of which weighed 90 tones were ferried down the nile. And all they have found was fucking canoes from that era. Imagine the size of the boat or raft needed to ferry a 90 tone block.

Just none of this shit makes sense.

The ramps were on the inside, they didn't have a 1/3rd mile ramp. This is an example of people thinking it's done one barely credible way, but then evidence is found of how they actually did it that makes more sense.

Anyway...

Any explanation you can come up with other than master craftsmen working over decades is even less likely.

TJT · Nov 10, 2023

Chris said:
The ramps were on the inside, they didn't have a 1/3rd mile ramp. This is an example of people thinking it's done one barely credible way, but then evidence is found of how they actually did it that makes more sense.

Anyway...

Any explanation you can come up with other than master craftsmen working over decades is even less likely.

The ramps would have still required the grade that he's talking about. Which is why the internal ramp is just another theory to add to the pile.

TJT · Nov 10, 2023

Here's one!

Chris · Nov 10, 2023

TJT said:
The ramps would have still required the grade that he's talking about. Which is why the internal ramp is just another theory to add to the pile.

Everything on the pile isn't equivalent.

"They brute force pushed it" is more credible than "They acoustically levitated it".

There are clearly lost techniques but people (not nessesarily you) take it too far.

TJT · Nov 10, 2023

Chris said:
Everything on the pile isn't equivalent.

"They brute force pushed it" is more credible than "They acoustically levitated it".

There are clearly lost techniques but people (not nessesarily you) take it too far.

I am not promoting acoustic levitation, aliens, or any other completely fantastical thing.

The only thing I 100% believe is that in our distant past (15k-30k years ago), somewhere, a more advanced society than cave dwellers surviving on hunting and gathering existed. That signs of this society probably do exist, but have had millennia of things built on top of them and later cultures just being attributed to it or them claiming it themselves.

The biggest example of this is always the megalithic construction (and all the questions along with it) that was almost universal in prehistory. But for some reason faded away as we moved into the historical record.

Cad · Nov 10, 2023

How do we know the Egyptians didn't use the wheel, simple pulleys or cranes or other things of that nature? Are we relying on their writings and pictures that are recorded?

The whole "we don't know how the pyramids were built" thing seems kinda Alex-Jonesy to me, I always just assumed they had clever manual techniques that we've forgotten simply because we didn't need them or invented better techniques.

Chris · Nov 10, 2023

TJT said:
I am not promoting acoustic levitation, aliens, or any other completely fantastical thing.

The only thing I 100% believe is that in our distant past (15k-30k years ago), somewhere, a more advanced society than cave dwellers surviving on hunting and gathering existed. That signs of this society probably do exist, but have had millennia of things built on top of them and later cultures just being attributed to it or them claiming it themselves.

The biggest example of this is always the megalithic construction (and all the questions along with it) that was almost universal in prehistory. But for some reason faded away as we moved into the historical record.

Yeah I think a coastal society building in wood and trading in food, cloth and bone/stone jewelry would not have much preserved, but could have had advanced social structures, some relatively advanced building techniques using those materials and built some of these otherwise out of place stone structures.

They probably didn't have metal or smelting as that stuff would stick around longer, so the tech would have been limited.

Chukzombi · Nov 10, 2023

TJT said:
I am not promoting acoustic levitation, aliens, or any other completely fantastical thing.

The only thing I 100% believe is that in our distant past (15k-30k years ago), somewhere, a more advanced society than cave dwellers surviving on hunting and gathering existed. That signs of this society probably do exist, but have had millennia of things built on top of them and later cultures just being attributed to it or them claiming it themselves.

The biggest example of this is always the megalithic construction (and all the questions along with it) that was almost universal in prehistory. But for some reason faded away as we moved into the historical record.

there are many examples of dynastic kings having other kings marks removed and had theirs put in their place so as to take credit . once you start doing that, then who actually built what and when is anyone's guess. then there is the other mystery of some cities that got blown the fuck up. such as Tanis. those are massive megaliths, but something knocked them around like toys.

Chukzombi · Nov 10, 2023

Cad said:
How do we know the Egyptians didn't use the wheel, simple pulleys or cranes or other things of that nature? Are we relying on their writings and pictures that are recorded?

The whole "we don't know how the pyramids were built" thing seems kinda Alex-Jonesy to me, I always just assumed they had clever manual techniques that we've forgotten simply because we didn't need them or invented better techniques.

this is another common argument. the pyramids have been set by the experts as being made as a tomb for a specific pharaoh(s) who commissioned the construction during his life , they have estimated it took 20-30 years for these structures to be built. its not something that can be built with ancient tech. the number of stones quarried, transported and erected in that time frame would be a massive undertaking with today's tech.
2.3 million stones weighing 2.5 tons each to make the Great Pyramid of Giza estimated to weigh 6 million tons each piece dragged there from 20 miles away.

Ancient Civilizations

soʞɐɯɹɐɥd

scientia potentia est

Millie's Staff Member

Bearded Ape

Trakanon Raider

Trakanon Raider

Mr. Poopybutthole

Trakanon Raider

Mr. Poopybutthole

Watcher of Overs

Potato del Grande

Mr. Poopybutthole

Mr. Poopybutthole

Potato del Grande

Mr. Poopybutthole

scientia potentia est

Potato del Grande

Millie's Staff Member

Millie's Staff Member