Arkk's Weight Lifting / Fitness Thread

Tuco said:

Why is this true for deadlifts and not for squats and bench press, or the many other lifts that put a tremendous amount of stress on the body?

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Because medical science can repair a fucked up knee/shoulder a lot better than it can fix a fucked up back.

Also the amount of weight you have to do in bench press in order to fuck up your shoulder is a lot, an amateur would have a very hard time fucking their body doing bench presses.
With deadlift, any person of the street can do 125 pounds deadlift and fuck their back in the process.

I don't think you should do back-squads with a spotter, do it as much as you can, and when u cant, you walk out of it. That guy behind you its not going to hold the weight when those 300-400 come crushing down.

Practice escaping a backsquad. Practice it at low weights, know your body, know when you are about to give out and then you bail out safely.

some quick search for walking out of a squat.

The problem is that not all forms are equal, not all injuries are the same. Having a fucked up shoulder is nothing comparing to having a fucked up back.

My father fucked up his back at an early age doing deadlifts and it has been a lifetime of misery for him. There has been times where he can not get out of the bed due to his pain, and must rely on heavy pain medication.

Barring the absurdity of having the bar slipping while doing a bench press and hitting you, yes it does happen, because people will use the wrong grip and be meatheads overall. the injuries from benchpress are very minor compared to deadlifts.



People will at some point in time fuck up their deadlift form and fuck their back; even without fucking up your back there is always the high potential for herniated discs.

Regarding Olympic weights they are pretty safe, you only put the stress on your body for a very short time.

For example it takes like 2-4 seconds to do a heavy deadlift, while it takes less than a second to do a snatch, and tops 2 seconds to do a clean.

The amount of injuries you see in Olympic is because you are talking about 300 -400 pounds, really pushing the envelope of human strength.

Also Olympic moves are a more exercise, they will force you to stretch your joints, making you super flexible.

just look at the flexibilty this guy has, and he is super heavy

Whatever. Do your deadlifts in perfect form, until that day you are just tired/get unlucky.

The point you are missing is that a back injury is not as fixable/manageable as a shoulder/knee injury.

Lendarios said:

People will at some point in time fuck up their deadlift form and fuck their back; even without fucking up your back there is always the high potential for herniated discs.

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If there were, say, thousands of lifters who have been doing deadlifts for decades and haven't fucked up their back, would this invalidate your statement here?

Can you find me a study that shows people who do deadlifts properly are frequently injured? Or even a guy who is clearly doing lifts properly but injured his back doing deadlifts?

Also, Lendarios maybe I'm in an information bubble, but I haven't seen a single successful lifter (by successful I mean are able to lift a lot of weight) who says that deadlifts should be avoided. Nor have I seen a physical therapist or sport doctor say that either.

Iceland Annie's fight back to the top of the CrossFit Games

This is someone who knows the techniques of lifting. She tried to do a PR one day, fucked up her form and almost kills her career.

The thing is that people don't do bad form on purpose, it just happens and they dont stop themselves. Some time bad form happens to even good athletes.

Lendarios said:

Iceland Annie's fight back to the top of the CrossFit Games

This is someone who knows the techniques of lifting. She tried to do a PR one day, fucked up her form and almost kills her career.

The thing is that people don't do bad form on purpose, it just happens and they dont stop themselves. Some time bad form happens to even good athletes.

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“I pretty much just put 220 (lbs.) on the bar, pulled that up. Put 240 on the bar. Pulled that up. 260 on the bar, pulled that up. I pretty much just worked my way up like that. I just wanted to go higher. I just went up in weight really fast and threw my PR on it and threw the technique out of the window and tried to tear the bar up.”

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Nice example.

From a crossfitter of all things.

There is a reason why this conversation was kicked off by a video of Trump Jr doing the lift totally wrong and the lifting community reacting to it really strongly.

Tuco said:

Also, Lendarios maybe I'm in an information bubble, but I haven't seen a single successful lifter (by successful I mean are able to lift a lot of weight) who says that deadlifts should be avoided. Nor have I seen a physical therapist or sport doctor say that either.

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I said and i quote myself "the risk reward ratio of deadlift is not worth it"

Deadlifts are one of the best testosterone building exercises, go for them. I try to avoided them because I always end up with back pain/soreness the day after. Not worth it for me, ill rather do this to strengthen/workout my back.



ZyyzYzzy she was also a weightlifter competitor for Iceland in the World Weightlifting Championship, can deadlift 370 lbs and a 270 lbs back-squad.

Tuco do you actually think people do bad form on purpose? Like they get on the bar and think, "man im gonna lift this looking like this"

ZyyzYzzy said:

Cool, and Stefi Cohen can pull >4x BW with no back issues

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Sumo??

Sumo?

Get the fuck outta here.

Also Stephanie Sanzo fucked her back and had to take time off. Injuries happen.

Lendarios said:

Tuco do you actually think people do bad form on purpose? Like they get on the bar and think, "man im gonna lifr this looking like this"

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No. I think a small minority of lifters get injured doing deadlifts, but nearly everytime they are doing deadlifts incorrectly.

I feel like how obscure of an incident this was (female, crossfit lifter, 4 years ago, wide variety of challenging athletics done) is the example you pull up is evidence that you're being overly cautioning about them. There are millions of people deadlifting heavy weight every day. It's not like guys are doing it correctly and their spines are popping out all the time.

We're not talking about a gym bro who comes in, puts a few hours a week in doing strict-form deadlifts that one day pops out a disc. The example you provided is of a woman who competitively puts her body through hell and one day it caught up with her when she really fucked it over.

I don't think you are grasping the idea of "risk vs reward" here.

Most people are amateurs lifting weights. Must people will do it with improper form,. Why because it is super easy to bend your back.

Lendarios said:

I don't think you are grasping the idea of "risk vs reward" here.

Most people are amateurs lifting weights. Must people will do it with improper form,. Why because it is super easy to bend your back.

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The disagreement we have is two fold:
1. I think you're way overestimating the risk, and I think you've failed to prove that someone attempting to hold proper form is at risk for injury.

2. I think you're undestimating the reward. You can't just replace the deadlift with a back extension. I'm still a lifting beginner here but it's obvious to me that a deadlift hits so many areas in a fairly stable, generalized and unique way that you'd have to replace the deadlifts with a handful of more focused exercises. I'm not looking to replace one lift with back extensions, hit thrusts, bent over row, farmer's carries, neck extensions and leg press (which are all fine exercises). And even if I did, I still wouldn't hit stuff like a deadlift does.