Arkk's Weight Lifting / Fitness Thread

For most people with normal anatomy and no pre-existing injuries there shouldn't be any problems with touching the chest when benching. The rule is basically the same for anyone and any PL exercise (squat, deadlift, bench), use the maximum range of motion possible without pain. If you have bad hips, squat higher, and raise the bar above the ground (with like a piece of wood or a rack) when deadlifting. If you have bad shoulders, bench with something on your chest (like folded towel) to shorten range of motion.

Personally, only time I've not touched the chest when benching is when I injured my right shoulders doing muscle up (never again, fuck muscle up). Very often, people saying "you shouldn't do X cause you will get injured like me" just happen to had pre-existing injuries or some condition (like impingement)

I had impingement. Very severe impingement that required surgery. Guess how I got the impingement.

I agree there is no hard and fast rule. And for all the reasons many people have already outlined in the last few pages simply saying "touch your chest" logically doesn't make sense. How wide is your grip? How long are your arms? How big is your chest?

When you look at proper lifting form nearly everyone tells you to cheat that motion anyway. You keep your shoulder blades tight and your ass on the bench but arch your back and push your chest up as much as you can while satisfying conditions 1 and 2. The more flexible you are the higher you're going to be able to lift your chest up away from the bench.

I don't arc at all, I pause at chest and I semi-narrow grip with 0 issues since 10+ yrs. Same for at least 2 of my training buddies. The causes of impingement are mostly unknown, people think it comes from lifting because lifting triggers inflammation+pain overtime if you have impingement. I have impingement at the hip and squatting causes me pain, but squatting did not cause my impingement, it appeared in my case during a growth spurt. Likely, you already had an abnormaly in your joint before you even started lifting, and you just made it worse. This is all speculative, but anyway, most people don't have any problem whatsoever with full range of motion.

Touching the chest only makes sense to me because the lift feels lot more natural that way and you have the same lowest point every rep, alternative would be to use a weight or a towel to ensure consistency. I don't know anything specific about the difference in muscle activation and shit, but general wisdom is wider range of motion is better for growth.

Oh no mine was definitely from Military Press. Went too far one day when I was 23 and instead of dropping it I tried to fight through it. it was bad form, it was a rookie mistake, but it was caused by trying to maintain that "full range of motion". It never would have happened if I didn't bring the weight down past my elbows being parallel with my shoulders. Followed by more youthful machismo in "fighting through the pain" and continuing to lift even after I had injured myself.

Many people would argue with you that by not arching you are practicing improper form. Lifting is like nutrition. You can talk to 20 different "experts" and you'll get many different answers, all pretending they are definitively correct.

Consistency is a good argument to make for touching the chest, and its also why competition requires it. Much easier to judge a "good" lift when all you have to do is look for the bar to hit the chest.

Is there any science on "full range of motion" in lifting? For instance, the lower you go past parallel on squat the more you are engaging your hips to initiate the push back up. The reason you feel it is because you are injured but the same amount of stress is being put on a much weaker muscle to initiate the lift for everyone who does it. And that hinge requires incredible flexibility in order to not compensate for that weakness with your back, which is not good to do.

As I said previously, if you have to fight through pain to do full range of motion, then don't do it. This is true for pain during the exercise but also lingering pain after the exercise. In my case, I had bad inflammation 1 day after low-bar squatting, so now I do Front squat to 90 degree (front squat is easier on the hip by remaining upright).

I don't arc in bench cause I got no mobility in my spine (I have a mild case of spondylitis).

There is science on full range of motion for squatting. Below parallel squat is better than half squat, but ass-to-grass isn't necessarily better than 1 degree below parallel. Only people with naturally flexible hip should do AtG squat imo.

here is a systematic review on this topic (just read the abstract obviously): Effects of range of motion on muscle development during resistance training interventions: A systematic review. They mention that their result might not be true for other muscle groups.

It has also been shown that partial squat are better for specific strength exercise (like jumping, or Offensive-line pushing in football). Not really surprising, specificity is the keyword as always (you don't fully squat when you jump or push something)

I think we agree. That's an interesting study as well. It seems that separate studies showed similar results for full range of motion, but full range of motion vs partial was measured differently. In one full ROM on squat went from 0 to 140 degress, and the other went from 0 to 90 degrees (parallel) and both showed similar results. This indicates going past parallel, at least for squatting, doesn't seem to net any benefit. Partial ROM was measured from 0 to 60 degrees and 0 to 50 degrees respectively, so basically half squats. Which nobody here is arguing for.

Interestingly the upper body full ROM was measured past parallel by all the studies they included. Important to mention they screened 1396 studies and found only 6 met the criteria. That is staggering and speaks to the "validity" of expert advice more than anything.

Yea there is almost no reliable science on this topic, its mostly experience/bro science. Imo, none of that matters too much for the average joe: your gains are mostly determined by genetics, diet, volume of training, and age, not the specifics of how exactly you perform each exercise. Just be safe, do enough volume, eat enough protein, and the rest is mostly up to your DNA/hormone profile.

Really enjoying it so far. Folks at the gym are pretty friendly/talkative, handle wait times well. Gym's got like 8 bench presses that are always full, but 3 squat racks that are always empty. Every personal trainer I've seen there has been even fatter than me, though, which makes me remember all my rotund PE teachers in school when I was a kid.

Hit two plates on my first exercise today (Barbell Squats). Presses really stabilized from doing the additional slow reps each time and the added cable flyes at the end of each session. Still progressing on every lift each week, but it has slowed down a bit (~3.75-5 pounds per week upper body, ~10 pounds deadlift, ~15 pounds squat). Not sure when to start looking at different lifting programs/plans; I assume at least wait until I'm at 1plate+ on everything (That'd probably be in ~9 weeks if the current rate holds, since Overhead Press is my lowest at 90)?

5lbs a week is really good progress even for experienced lifters so dont think its not. As long as you are progressing and seeing results doing look at changing plans. Keep at what you are doing if its working!

YouTube would be your best bet. Or just Google kettlebell routines.

Decided to try out the 5/3/1 thing folks mentioned a couple months ago when I was starting up. Going from 25 deadlifts in a session to 80 is definitely an experience. I wasn't usually sweating much at the end of the major compound lifts, but was definitely sweating today!

80? What? 5/3/1 max amount of reps for the big, compound lifts should 6x5. 3x5 warmup, 3x5 working. Then week two is 3x5 warmup, 3x3 working, then week 3 is 5/3/1 working (same warmup as every other week).

Khane said:

80? What? 5/3/1 max amount of reps for the big, compound lifts should 6x5. 3x5 warmup, 3x5 working. Then week two is 6x3, then week 3 is 5/3/1.

Click to expand...

The outline I found online tosses 5x10 at 40/50/60% after the three sets of higher percentage. 3x5 warmup. "5/3/1 Boring But Big". Then 50-100 for accessory work.

There are a lot of modified templates out there but I don't remember seeing one like that anywhere in his actual book. That seems excessive.

Ah, I don't have his book, just his website.

I actually enjoyed it, tho. Busting out a bunch of lower weight reps was fun.


EDIT: Home now, so grabbed the link: Boring But Big

My gloves finally bit it. Snagged some of these. Buddy swears by them. Will see how they feel.