Australian in U.S. on baseball scholarship murdered by teens because they were bored

Szlia

Szlia

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Imagine society as a game. You have to create a rule set that makes everyone want to play. The thing is, with the current rule set, some people see the game, see the differences in starting situations, the different progression paths or lack of thereof and decide: I am not playing that game of yours! Thug culture is nothing else: a group of people who made their own rules and feel that anyone playing that other game is really really stupid or at the benefit of an unfair advantage. Players would not mind the existence of non-players if they did not have to interact with them, but, as it stands, the rules of the game assume everyone is a player, labeling cheaters those who refuse to play. That's basically Dumar's point: to solve the problem, make better rules.
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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excusing personal choice and personal behavoir. thinking of people as things with no self respect, you can spout all kinds of high minded shepardism but one truism that stands the test of time is that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
 
Araysar

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However, the rules are not stacked so badly that the game is impossible to win.

While the thug culture assumes exactly that, that unless you can simply breeze through the game, then the game isnt worth playing.
 
Szlia

Szlia

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That raises some important points. We have some people considering the 'American Way of Life' rules and the 'Thug Culture' rules and chose the 2nd option. That means they perceive the 2nd option as the best. What does it mean? Thug Culture rules are not exactly a stellar rule set. It promises for some a better reward/effort ratio than in the American Way of Life, but for most it also means dramatically shorter life expectancy, authoritarian pyramidal structure, time spent in jail... So people are not very good at choosing which rule set they want to play with and/or Thug Culture is better at selling its rule set than American Way of Life and/or people prefer the hope of a good reward/effort ratio to the perceived certainty of a terrible reward/effort ratio and/or the more people around you chose Thug Culture, the least appealing American Way of Life becomes (the opposite is also true, because both disrupt each other - thugs get arrested, law abiding citizens get targeted).

You can see here a number of levers than can be pulled or pushed. Repression for instance is an attempt to make Thug Culture less appealing by increasing the likeliness and length of jail time and diminishing the likeliness of a good reward/effort for the thugs. One can argue repression alone is not enough, because no matter how slim, the hope is still here and the pockets of Thug Culture still favor the perpetuation of the rule set. Another lever is education, to help people make better choices and make them better at the American Way of Life. Another is changing the American Way of Life rules and changing the perception of these rules. Another could be urbanistic heterogeneity: not making huge areas with only people that feel they don't have much of a shot at the American Way of Life. Etc...


EDIT: Just thought of something I wanted to add. Thug Culture also perpetuates itself by recruiting players at a young age, when they don't have the tools to see past the shot at fame and fortune and to resist the intimidation and the peer pressure. And the more time spent playing the Thug Culture game, the less likely it becomes to have success at the American Way of Life.
 
Araysar

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Szlia_sl said:
That raises some important points. We have some people considering the 'American Way of Life' rules and the 'Thug Culture' rules and chose the 2nd option. That means they perceive the 2nd option as the best. What does it mean? Thug Culture rules are not exactly a stellar rule set. It promises for some a better reward/effort ratio than in the American Way of Life, but for most it also means dramatically shorter life expectancy, authoritarian pyramidal structure, time spent in jail... So people are not very good at choosing which rule set they want to play with and/or Thug Culture is better at selling its rule set than American Way of Life and/or people prefer the hope of a good reward/effort ratio to the perceived certainty of a terrible reward/effort ratio and/or the more people around you chose Thug Culture, the least appealing American Way of Life becomes (the opposite is also true, because both disrupt each other - thugs get arrested, law abiding citizens get targeted).

You can see here a number of levers than can be pulled or pushed. Repression for instance is an attempt to make Thug Culture less appealing by increasing the likeliness and length of jail time and diminishing the likeliness of a good reward/effort for the thugs. One can argue repression alone is not enough, because no matter how slim, the hope is still here and the pockets of Thug Culture still favor the perpetuation of the rule set. Another lever is education, to help people make better choices and make them better at the American Way of Life. Another is changing the American Way of Life rules and changing the perception of these rules. Another could be urbanistic heterogeneity: not making huge areas with only people that feel they don't have much of a shot at the American Way of Life. Etc...


EDIT: Just thought of something I wanted to add. Thug Culture also perpetuates itself by recruiting players at a young age, when they don't have the tools to see past the shot at fame and fortune and to resist the intimidation and the peer pressure. And the more time spent playing the Thug Culture game, the less likely it becomes to have success at the American Way of Life.
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that was a very long and verbose way of stating the obvious.

though normally i agree with dumar, i dont think that artifically raising the standard of living for blacks will do anything.

they'll still be 20 year old adults with all reading and writing skills of a 10 year old.
 
C

Creslin

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This is a stupid conversation because no one actually makes decisions about their life in anything remotely close to what you guys described.
 
Araysar

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ATT00001.jpg
 
Cad

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Szlia_sl said:
That raises some important points. We have some people considering the 'American Way of Life' rules and the 'Thug Culture' rules and chose the 2nd option. That means they perceive the 2nd option as the best. What does it mean? Thug Culture rules are not exactly a stellar rule set. It promises for some a better reward/effort ratio than in the American Way of Life, but for most it also means dramatically shorter life expectancy, authoritarian pyramidal structure, time spent in jail... So people are not very good at choosing which rule set they want to play with and/or Thug Culture is better at selling its rule set than American Way of Life and/or people prefer the hope of a good reward/effort ratio to the perceived certainty of a terrible reward/effort ratio and/or the more people around you chose Thug Culture, the least appealing American Way of Life becomes (the opposite is also true, because both disrupt each other - thugs get arrested, law abiding citizens get targeted).

You can see here a number of levers than can be pulled or pushed. Repression for instance is an attempt to make Thug Culture less appealing by increasing the likeliness and length of jail time and diminishing the likeliness of a good reward/effort for the thugs. One can argue repression alone is not enough, because no matter how slim, the hope is still here and the pockets of Thug Culture still favor the perpetuation of the rule set. Another lever is education, to help people make better choices and make them better at the American Way of Life. Another is changing the American Way of Life rules and changing the perception of these rules. Another could be urbanistic heterogeneity: not making huge areas with only people that feel they don't have much of a shot at the American Way of Life. Etc...


EDIT: Just thought of something I wanted to add. Thug Culture also perpetuates itself by recruiting players at a young age, when they don't have the tools to see past the shot at fame and fortune and to resist the intimidation and the peer pressure. And the more time spent playing the Thug Culture game, the less likely it becomes to have success at the American Way of Life.
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There's no real way to suddenly "fix" a class and education problem. It's a generational problem because people learn their values primarily from their parents and their peers. Both young poor blacks and young poor whites learn very poor values from their parents and the people they are around; nothing is going to change that without taking children away from unfit parents, or finding some way to discourage unfit parents from having children, and letting time take its course.

Or hey, just give them a bunch of social aid, pretend its a relatively homogeneous society like sweden or switzerland, watch that fail, and then we can try something else.
 
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Dumar_sl

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Studies have shown, over and over, that racial homogeneity is not nearly as important as more smooth income equality, at which the US is fucking horrible.

It's a scapegoat America often uses to ignore its problems.
 
Araysar

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How will blacks achieve smooth income equality? Look at people like Rachel Jeantel. What job could she possibly hold in her life that would justify paying her more than $7 an hour?
 
Cad

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Dumar_sl said:
Studies have shown, over and over, that racial homogeneity is not nearly as important as more smooth income equality, at which the US is fucking horrible.

It's a scapegoat America often uses to ignore its problems.
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I didn't say racially homogeneous.
 
Big Phoenix

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People who are fluent in retard and ebonics arent in short supply so she would still be making minimum wage.
 
Siddar

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Adebisi_sl said:
First step: legalize drugs.

How will thugs get their benjamins without drugs?
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They would come to your house and shoot you then take both your money and now legal drugs.

In fact crime would surge if drugs were made legal.
 
Titan_Atlas

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Szlia_sl said:
Imagine society as a game. You have to create a rule set that makes everyone want to play. The thing is, with the current rule set, some people see the game, see the differences in starting situations, the different progression paths or lack of thereof and decide: I am not playing that game of yours! Thug culture is nothing else: a group of people who made their own rules and feel that anyone playing that other game is really really stupid or at the benefit of an unfair advantage. Players would not mind the existence of non-players if they did not have to interact with them, but, as it stands, the rules of the game assume everyone is a player, labeling cheaters those who refuse to play. That's basically Dumar's point: to solve the problem, make better rules.
Click to expand...
Thank god you live in Switzerland cause your an idiot. They don't make new rules because the existing ruleset is set against them. They are lazy assholes who accept a culture of laziness. People every single day come from the same circumstances and choose to work hard in school, get degree's and take part in society. There are lazy fucks of every class and color and they choose to take the easy road because they lack work ethic.Black thugs are just a violent subgroup of assholes who refuse to get their shit together.
 
Araysar

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I'm actually ready to cut off every single social program in America, starting with food stamps, WIC, welfare, etc.

Giving them financial assistance doesn't work. Lets try it the other way around. Suspend all WIC, food stamps, welfare, etc. and see where that takes us.
 
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