Avengers: Endgame (2019)

Chukzombi

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Just watched Infinity War again, and yeah, that movie is 10x more cohesive, pacing is damn near perfect, transitions are much cleaner between scenes, it felt logical in its ordering and shifting between characters/subplots. There's not much in the way of "cheese". It's mostly matter of fact, characters dealing with things as they come. Realized it was Tony's fault that Captain isn't there when he's fighting with Strange, even though he bitches at him for not being there in Endgame. YA DIDN'T CALL EM WHEN YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY YA DICK. He did do the most ass kicking, though, from the very beginning he's essentially stalemate with Thanos's underlings, then fights with Thanos for like 45 minutes, and makes him bleed, "If you could make God bleed, people would cease to believe in Him," Whiplash in IM2... but still gets wrecked because he's doing all the fighting by himself. The only really dumb moment is Wakanda being almost entirely a ground encounter. The ending is much less shocking after viewing it a few times, and honestly it cuts to credits rather abruptly. Then has the lamest post credit scene.

Other than Hawkeye's family scene, Endgame has a clunky beginning. Captain Marvel shows up but it doesn't matter because they've now "double lost". You have multiple deus ex machina, the rat, Ant Man coming back, and Tony solving time travel in what feels like a separate short story from the rest of the movie. It feels very "episodic" in its moments, where you could have split it into about 5 or so episodes. So Infinity War also had a girl power moment, where Scarlet Witch, Black Widow and spear chucker combine to fight lady minion. Lady minion says, "You're alone, now," or something, and someone says "She has help," and all the girls attack, which is basically what also happens in Endgame, just turned up to 12. Not 11, 12. They went too far, and went even further. And characters came out of no where, while in IW, they're very nearby on the battlefield.

Fat Thor is them also taking it too far. He ate the power of a star in IW, and Stormbreaker basically recharged his ass, so it doesn't make much sense his weakening in EG, other than to enable other characters to rise up who were sidelined in IW, namely Captain America. I mean, Stormbreaker busts through the power of the gauntlet with all of the stones, and yet Thanos kicks more ass without the gauntlet. Is that armor and sword staff that can carve through the shield stronger than the gauntlet? What. Power level inconsistency is really bad in Endgame.

The theme of the movie is also all over the place. There's too much of a separation and clunkiness when going between serious scenes and quirky, funny scenes, without much transition clarity. Hawkeye's family gets dusted, the team kill Thanos but ultimately fail, then you get a bunch of time travel movie jokes. The time travel scenes are fun, very well done, but it hops from hilariousness of the space stone to extreme seriousness with the soul stone. Some of the jokes also feel slightly jarring for the theme of the scene.

That said, Endgame is 100x more emotionally impactful. Heart was in the right place, but the big problem that was overlooked in creating Endgame was purely compositional with a couple heavy handed cheese moments.

Endgame also has so many more badass moments. IW has Groot creating the handle, Thor showing up and wrecking, but otherwise they're basically getting their ass beat. The hammer flying to Captain America, literally the most chills inspiring moment in all of the God damn movies. Scarlet Witch got her moment. That whole 45 minutes I was on the edge of my seat. Looking forward to seeing the screens when the 4K master comes out.

As far as re-watch ability, Infinity War is where it's at. Though honestly I could watch the first Avengers more than the rest of them, to the point I've basically memorized the lines. I'm kinna worried how I'm gonna feel after watching Endgame more than once. That shit fucked me up in public. Didn't realize I gave as much of a shit about Black Widow as I did (fucking killer acting, pardon the pun). And again, the movie as a whole is very disjointed. Is it a drama, is it a family movie, is it a romance movie, is it a comedy, is it a heist, is it a time travel movie, is it a redemption movie, IS IT A CHRISTMAS MOVIE (no), all of the above!

Side note, Dolby Vision on Infinity War made the viewing experience at home even better than it was in the cinema. Light peaking out from around objects gives a level of brightness and depth that isn't quite as present on the big screen. That said, it also makes background CGI that isn't as clean as closeups look slightly off - Bruce's head in the busted Hulkbuster, for example.

Anywho, rant over.
i had something similar happen, i was bummed out during the 9/11 style plaques of all the dead in the snap, but hollywood used that scene so many times in other films its practically a trope now, but when Natasha died, it gut punched me to the point i was embarrassed i was mourning a fictional character played by an over the hill actress who likely wishes people like me were dead IRL.
 
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j00t

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my explanation of thanos' fluctuating power levels...

so in infinity war, he pretty rarely uses the stones in combat, basically not at all until he has them all at the end. he's got this weird sense of honor where he's willing to give his opponent a chance. it's sort of like a olympic sprinter going against a high schooler and giving them a head start. like, he COULD have used the stones to quickly end any of the conflicts he was in, but he didn't. he lets hulk get a good couple hits in (i say "lets" in the sense that he didn't use the power stone and end the fight before it started), he fights iron man, spider-man, dr strange and the guardians for several minutes before he starts chucking moons at them, in wakanda, he gives everyone a shot before overpowering them. remember that scene in spider-man, where tony says to peter, if you're nothing without the suit, then you don't deserve it. it's like thanos thinks the same thing with the stones. if he can't beat them without "cheating" then he doesn't deserve to finish his crusade. there's a point in each of his fight scenes where you can almost see him thinking, "okay, they gave it their best shot and i'm still here, there's no point in delaying this any further."

in endgame, when we see alternate thanos, he doesn't have that same reserve, because he almost feels like the avengers are cheating with their time travel. he knows that he was able to complete his mission, he knows that he would have given them all a chance and they blew it, so he doesn't feel the need to hold back anymore.

as far as thor's power level goes, i don't really think it changed at all. it's not like his muscles are a direct translation of his strength. sure maybe he lost a little bit of his edge, but the reason stormbreaker was such a big deal was because it was designed SPECIFICALLY to withstand the full force of the infinity gauntlet, which is exactly what it did in infinity war. thanos had already beaten thor and all his people, so he wasn't really concerned about him all that much. he just went straight for a kill shot with him not knowing that stormbreaker could trump a blast from the stones. if they went for a one on one fight again, it probably would have ended up the same as the other times they fought in infinity war and endgame
 
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a c i d.f l y

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my explanation of thanos' fluctuating power levels...

so in infinity war, he pretty rarely uses the stones in combat, basically not at all until he has them all at the end. he's got this weird sense of honor where he's willing to give his opponent a chance. it's sort of like a olympic sprinter going against a high schooler and giving them a head start. like, he COULD have used the stones to quickly end any of the conflicts he was in, but he didn't. he lets hulk get a good couple hits in (i say "lets" in the sense that he didn't use the power stone and end the fight before it started), he fights iron man, spider-man, dr strange and the guardians for several minutes before he starts chucking moons at them, in wakanda, he gives everyone a shot before overpowering them. remember that scene in spider-man, where tony says to peter, if you're nothing without the suit, then you don't deserve it. it's like thanos thinks the same thing with the stones. if he can't beat them without "cheating" then he doesn't deserve to finish his crusade. there's a point in each of his fight scenes where you can almost see him thinking, "okay, they gave it their best shot and i'm still here, there's no point in delaying this any further."

in endgame, when we see alternate thanos, he doesn't have that same reserve, because he almost feels like the avengers are cheating with their time travel. he knows that he was able to complete his mission, he knows that he would have given them all a chance and they blew it, so he doesn't feel the need to hold back anymore.

as far as thor's power level goes, i don't really think it changed at all. it's not like his muscles are a direct translation of his strength. sure maybe he lost a little bit of his edge, but the reason stormbreaker was such a big deal was because it was designed SPECIFICALLY to withstand the full force of the infinity gauntlet, which is exactly what it did in infinity war. thanos had already beaten thor and all his people, so he wasn't really concerned about him all that much. he just went straight for a kill shot with him not knowing that stormbreaker could trump a blast from the stones. if they went for a one on one fight again, it probably would have ended up the same as the other times they fought in infinity war and endgame
All very good points. Explains why Thanos struggles a bit when he did get the gauntlet as it goes with what you said about Stormbreaker being designed specifically to counter it. With Thor and Captain out for that moment, it relies on the rest of the team (who weren't all there the first time) and ultimately Ironman finishing what he started.

Makes it all the better. Doesn't change my thoughts on the themes, pacing, and all the other things that make a movie not just great. Which Endgame still is in spite of its flaws.
 
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Gavinmad

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it was designed SPECIFICALLY to withstand the full force of the infinity gauntlet

So they specifically designed stormbreaker to withstand the full force of another weapon that they hadn't even thought of yet, let alone created.
 

Harshaw

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So they specifically designed stormbreaker to withstand the full force of another weapon that they hadn't even thought of yet, let alone created.

Made by same guy who made the Gauntlet who had never probably even seen an Infinity Stone before?
 

a c i d.f l y

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So they specifically designed stormbreaker to withstand the full force of another weapon that they hadn't even thought of yet, let alone created.
The same midget asshole who created the gauntlet created Stormbreaker. He may have not seen an Infinity stone, but it was the foundry for magical artifacts imbued with purpose ("In theory should even channel the power of the bifrost"). Meaning it could handle the stones and overpower the gauntlet. Stormbreaker beats Gauntlet. Rock, paper, scissors. Otherwise it's just a big axe.
 

Gavinmad

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The same midget asshole who created the gauntlet created Stormbreaker.

He might have had a hand in creating Stormbreaker's mold but I seriously doubt it was a solo creation, and I doubt the Infinity Gauntlet was either. As the ruler of the Dwarves, whenever Eitri says "I", it's just as likely that he's referring to all the resources and craftsmen Nidavellir could bring to bear.
 

a c i d.f l y

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He might have had a hand in creating Stormbreaker's mold but I seriously doubt it was a solo creation, and I doubt the Infinity Gauntlet was either. As the ruler of the Dwarves, whenever Eitri says "I", it's just as likely that he's referring to all the resources and craftsmen Nidavellir could bring to bear.
Yeah, his "In theory should harness the power of the bifrost" statement furthers your point because he doesn't fuckin know, lol. The mold was already created before they were all massacred, it wasn't something new, it just hadn't been crafted yet.
 

Gamma Rays

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I have been busy the last few weeks and have only just got back from seeing the film.

Point 1: Amazing thing is that I was never spoilered so I went in totally clear.

Point 2:

ap_800-c85.jpg
 
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TJT

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Didn't really want to go see this but the girl did so I did. It was okay. Like anything with retarded time travel it makes nonsensical loopholes if you think too hard about it. Girl power moment was dumb and Captain Marvel is a terrible character. Singlehandedly destroys Thanos Giga Battleship but then needs Girl Power to get her through a few dozen robots. Wut? Girl Power thing was stupid and so forced and awful.

Can someone explain to me how Dr Strange magically summoned the forces of actual Asgard even though the final battle took place during present day where Asgard was destroyed? Thor passing the torch to the fucking Valkyrie of all people was dumb too. I liked Loki escaping because he is an awesome character and now we'll get more of him.

Fat Thor stole the show. Captain America got an excellent sendoff and Ironman got a very decent one. Thanos was overall a near top tier villain.
 
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Chris

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Can someone explain to me how Dr Strange magically summoned the forces of actual Asgard even though the final battle took place during present day where Asgard was destroyed?
Wasn't that the Asgardian refugees from Norway? They just suited up.
 
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iannis

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I don't care for comic book movies, I don't even torrent them.

What I adore though is that there are nerds who will argue about the properties of magical artifacts. The fandom is better than the source!
 
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Aychamo BanBan

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Just noticed ... Cap leading the grief recovery group discussion in the beginning of Endgame is a callback to how Falcon led the PTSD recovery group in the beginning of The Winter Soldier.
 
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spronk

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wasn't that just New Asgard aka Norway, Europe is now letting immigrants in from other planets
 
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Chukzombi

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I don't care for comic book movies, I don't even torrent them.

What I adore though is that there are nerds who will argue about the properties of magical artifacts. The fandom is better than the source!
even with magic there are rules that must be obeyed, otherwise anything could happen at anytime. in IW and EG they had OP characters they had to put limits on because it wouldnt be a good story if unstoppable Hulk got bigger stronger and meaner with every Thanos punch. its why Thor had to lose his hammer in Thor 3. its why the avengers got separated.