Avengers: Endgame (2019)

spronk

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and the infinity stones in the movie have a cost to their use. Whether its cause they were outside THE gauntlet, that thanos had the dwarf guy make, or just when you use them for something as big as the snap.. idk. But, it wasn't like the comics where having all the stones just makes you a god that can do anything constantly.

I don't know why people are having an issue with the time travel. Especially if you think it created paradoxes or plot holes, it really didn't. Each jump is basically an alternate universe. Nothing they do affects their reality or timeline. Each time they jump, it was creating a new timeline from their changes, if any.
I don't have a problem with the time travel stuff, just like I think of "50% reduction" as more a metaphor for viewers to "make people think about the LONG, LONG, LONG term consequences of their civilization", I view time travel as just a movie shortcut of getting shit in the right place at the right time. Sure, Thanos could have rephrased his "wish" to be something more like "alter every civilization so they live in balance with their environment and never exceed their planets capacity and its resources are distributed in a fair and equitable way" but that sounds stupid and is hard to portray on screen, vs "50% of people turn into ash yo!"

I am not a huge fan of alternate timelines though, because essentially once you allow multiple timelines you must allow infinite timelines - it makes no sense to only have 3 or 4 timelines, its much more likely there is an infinite number if there is more than 1. Infinite is a big number, beyond our comprehension. An infinite number of timelines based on every possible consequence means nothing you do really matters. Who cares if Thanos snaps 50% in this timeline? There are an infinite number of timelines where he does not, all you are doing is side stepping timelines to match the one you like. Nothing you do matters, there are an infinite number of timelines where all your mistakes didn't happen. There are an infinite number of timelines where all life vanishes, and an infinite number where life flourishes for eternity. It makes all choices unimportant.

Always preferred the idea of only a single reality, and if there are infinite other possibilities there is no way to ever, ever, ever cross between them which means your choices have real consequences.

Should make the spider man movie interesting though since they seem to directly reference multiple timelines in that trailer.
 
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If there's an infinite number of timelines, that guarantees all realities are possible, where in such there must exist a reality where reality doesn't exist -- it's a paradox that dictates a finite number a timelines, but with the ability to travel back in time, you have the opportunity to create more. In this movie, they sparked several alternate timelines and there are plenty of videos explaining where those timelines broke off. The original timeline coalesced after they returned the stones to their respective times, but they already "split time" by interacting with the past. The prime timeline would not exist had they not returned said stones to allow for their present to exist.

According to Strange, when he played out every potential future timeline from that particular point, there was only 14,000,605 possible timelines. So again, finite.
 

j00t

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so here's the problem with this. it's stupid. the end.

seriously though, the russo's went and said that cap went to a different timeline and then somehow came back to the "prime" universe after 70 years or so. also, the writers said the exact opposite. the writers said that they envisioned that cap was always peggy's unmentioned husband and there are some kids running around with super soldier genes.

so for everyone saying "no it makes perfect sense, it was completely internally consistent" and everyone saying "the movie didn't follow it's own rules as evidenced by cap's ending"

...

well, sorry to tell you but you're both right.
 

j00t

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According to Strange, when he played out every potential future timeline from that particular point, there was only 14,000,605 possible timelines. So again, finite.
that's not consistent with what quantum physics tells us, which is what that whole scene was implying. i mean, i knwo that's exactly what dr strange says, so that's all we really have to go on. does it mean that there are ONLY 14,000,605 timelines or that that was all he was able to look at (for whatever reason)?

i mean, the ancient one says that when they take the stones they are creating new timelines, so it's easy to argue that there are more (or COULD be more) than 14 million, just because you can create an infinite amount of timelines because there are an infinite amount of choices that can be made.

i don't really think it's all that important a distinction, just somewhat interesting idea
 

Enzee

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If there's an infinite number of timelines, that guarantees all realities are possible, where in such there must exist a reality where reality doesn't exist
I mean.. no. That's assuming things about the universe and parallel dimensions based on a human understanding of things that may or may not be true. An infinite number of timelines, all of which based on reality existing, is entirely possible. Or, even if reality didn't exist within one, it doesn't matter, because it has no overlap with any other timeline. It can't interact or impede upon other realities, so whether it does or does not exist is irrelevant.

Also, Strange said he looked at that many outcomes of the coming conflict, from their point in time forward, not that that was how many total realities existed. There would exist many timelines where Thanos doesn't exist, isn't crazy, doesn't collect the stones, etc.. and yes, I realize that if there is actually infinite timelines, there would then exist infinite timelines where they fight thanos, but I'm not saying there are actually 'infinite' timelines/dimensions in marvel's universe. I think its more like 'an uncountably high number, all of which where superheroes (and reality) exist'

I double checked his wording btw:
 

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I mean.. no. That's assuming things about the universe and parallel dimensions based on a human understanding of things that may or may not be true. An infinite number of timelines, all of which based on reality existing, is entirely possible. Or, even if reality didn't exist within one, it doesn't matter, because it has no overlap with any other timeline. It can't interact or impede upon other realities, so whether it does or does not exist is irrelevant.

Also, Strange said he looked at that many outcomes of the coming conflict, from their point in time forward, not that that was how many total realities existed. There would exist many timelines where Thanos doesn't exist, isn't crazy, doesn't collect the stones, etc.. and yes, I realize that if there is actually infinite timelines, there would then exist infinite timelines where they fight thanos, but I'm not saying there are actually 'infinite' timelines/dimensions in marvel's universe. I think its more like 'an uncountably high number, all of which where superheroes (and reality) exist'
The point I was making, and I'll explain further, with infinite realities, there's one where that reality destroys the rest. According to Murphy's Law, anyway.

No other timelines existed at the point Strange did his thing, as no one had gone back in time yet. Well, that we've been made aware of, anyway. Previous Sorcerer Supreme only ever mentioned looking forward in time and could not see past a specific point in time. Their prime objective was to protect their realm and the time stone, with books specifically stating the risks of fucking with time.

I'm betting they try to collaborate/explain some of this shit in Doctor Strange 2, with some misleading shit from Mysterio in Spider-Man 2.
 

Rengak

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That happened in the comics. It was called Incursions

 

Enzee

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The point I was making, and I'll explain further, with infinite realities, there's one where that reality destroys the rest. According to Murphy's Law, anyway.

No other timelines existed at the point Strange did his thing, as no one had gone back in time yet. Well, that we've been made aware of, anyway. Previous Sorcerer Supreme only ever mentioned looking forward in time and could not see past a specific point in time. Their prime objective was to protect their realm and the time stone, with books specifically stating the risks of fucking with time.

I'm betting they try to collaborate/explain some of this shit in Doctor Strange 2, with some misleading shit from Mysterio in Spider-Man 2.
Well, there's a difference between an infinite amount of possible timelines, and an infinite number of timelines already existing. Yes, when you actually have 'infinite timelines, dimensions and realities' all existing from the beginning of time, then one of them might destroy the rest, sure. I don't fully agree with that premise, but I'll get to that.
That's not what people really mean when they refer to things like 'infinite timelines' in this, the marvel universe. It's a subset of infinite where certain rules already exist in every dimension. That is, reality exists in all of them, and generally so does life of some kind and/or superheroes. There is no like.. anti-matter universe (idk what to call it) that solely exists to end reality in other timelines.
Even when there is something like that (they once had something called the cancerverse, and it was sorta the opposite of our reality on some base level where nothing died due to Death herself dying or not existing, I forget which), that would be the one to come and destroy ours. The act of that universe trying to invade/destroy ours is what the heroes stop from happening. When you extrapolate along infinite years from current day, sure, one of them might reign supreme over the rest, but we aren't to that point yet. We're in the middle bits of infinity, in terms of actual time.

In any case, this is a more abstract discussion and not totally relevant to the movie itself. So far, they are making the total number of timelines finite, but we don't know how many. There is the possibility for infinite divergences now that time travel exists, but they don't all already exist. Or, they all poof out of existence when the infinity stones are returned, whatever. It doesn't really matter. In either scenario, they are free from creating paradoxes with their time travel was the main point. When they go back in time, if they make any changes at all, that timeline diverges and creates an alternate reality. It never affects their own timeline, cause that would create a paradox.
 

Lenardo

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I always assumed that Dr Strange just stopped at the first timeline where they won, thus that weird number.

he saw 14,000,604 failures, then BAM winner winner chicken dinner!.. granted he should have done a few million more timeline where they won without BW or IM dying,...but you cannot have everything.
 
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Khane

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He said he viewed all possible outcomes. And when asked how many they win in, he said one.
 

Ravishing

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Some boxoffice #s:

Endgame is finishing up its 3rd week, doing ~$4M/day domestic atm (higher on weekends). At this rate it might pass Avatar domestically in 2-3 weeks. It is basically impossible to catch SW:TFA. So Endgame will likely end #2 Domestically.
All Time Domestic Box Office Results

Worldwide, James Cameron is no longer #1 & #2. Endgame has passed Titanic to take the #2 spot. Endgame is ~$288M from taking #1. It's possible, but will be close. Endgame needs to make ~$41M/week for the next ~7weeks to cross the finish line. I'm going to guess it doesn't get there.
Avatar does benefit from multiple releases whereas Endgame is still in it's first theatrical release.


I wish tickets was the metric and not $$ but then new records would never be recorded. Also, it's all an estimate and is too hard to track accurately, especially overseas.

In terms of Tickets (Domestic Only):

Titanic: 135,549,800 (5th)
SW:TFA: 108,115,100 (11th)
Avatar: 97,309,600 (15th)
Endgame: 80,848,800 (24th)

All Time Box Office Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation
 
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Fadaar

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^ That is the chart that truly matters. Inflation matters not when it's purely ticket sales. More impressive that the really old movies hold the top spot when the world population was considerably smaller, though these days people are more willing to wait for home release.
 

Harshaw

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Some boxoffice #s:

Endgame is finishing up its 3rd week, doing ~$4M/day domestic atm (higher on weekends). At this rate it might pass Avatar domestically in 2-3 weeks. It is basically impossible to catch SW:TFA. So Endgame will likely end #2 Domestically.
All Time Domestic Box Office Results

Worldwide, James Cameron is no longer #1 & #2. Endgame has passed Titanic to take the #2 spot. Endgame is ~$288M from taking #1. It's possible, but will be close. Endgame needs to make ~$41M/week for the next ~7weeks to cross the finish line. I'm going to guess it doesn't get there.
Avatar does benefit from multiple releases whereas Endgame is still in it's first theatrical release.


I wish tickets was the metric and not $$ but then new records would never be recorded. Also, it's all an estimate and is too hard to track accurately, especially overseas.

In terms of Tickets (Domestic Only):

Titanic: 135,549,800 (5th)
SW:TFA: 108,115,100 (11th)
Avatar: 97,309,600 (15th)
Endgame: 80,848,800 (24th)

All Time Box Office Adjusted for Ticket Price Inflation
I mean Endgame made 700 million last weekend. Even with an over 50% drop it's beating Avatar. You also have to remember Avatar was in theaters for 34 weeks. It's very rare for movies to be in theaters like that anymore. Hell Titanic was in theaters like 50 weeks which is insane.
 

Ravishing

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I mean Endgame made 700 million last weekend. Even with an over 50% drop it's beating Avatar. You also have to remember Avatar was in theaters for 34 weeks. It's very rare for movies to be in theaters like that anymore. Hell Titanic was in theaters like 50 weeks which is insane.
It had a 60% drop week 2 and another 60% week 3. I think it'll struggle to take #1 worldwide.
 

Ravishing

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^ That is the chart that truly matters. Inflation matters not when it's purely ticket sales. More impressive that the really old movies hold the top spot when the world population was considerably smaller, though these days people are more willing to wait for home release.
It's still not a perfect metric, here's a good analysis on Gone wth the wind:
 

Chris

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Well you could see the real Asgard skyline through the portal.
Oh yeah that's something... given Hulk saw Asgard destroyed, perhaps he brought it back with the anti-snap? He must have done other logistical things like place unsnapped people off the airplanes they were on etc.

EDIT: Read the rest of the thread and it seems like it was Norway through the portal.