Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

Erronius

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
16,483
42,428
Lyrical_sl said:
Bullshit. The higher rated Batman movies tended to gross better, the lower rated tended gross worse.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/franchi...?id=batman.htm

1 The Dark Knight $533,345,358
2 The Dark Knight Rises $448,139,099
3 Batman $251,188,924
4 Batman Begins $205,343,774
5 Batman Forever $184,031,112
6 Batman Returns $162,831,698
7 Batman and Robin $107,325,195
Click to expand...
You literally either didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand a word of it.

Erronius_sl said:
You say"2 out of 4"as if we also aren't aware that you can also say 2 out of 6, 2 out of 8...2 out of 10. Hell, you can stretch it to 2 out of 12 before you even begin to hit MoS.

Point is, DC's problem isn't that they can't make bank off of Superman/Batman. It's that's those two are really the only ones they've been able to do that with. They had a similar problem on the comics side and kept trying to reboot everything. Marvel IPs on the other hand have been dominating the market.DC doesn't JUST want to have to rely on the occasional Batman/Superman blockbuster, they wanted this movie to be a stepping stone into a larger DCU offering of movies...AND THE SUCCESS OF THAT ENDEAVOR HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH HOW MUCH TDK/TDKR GROSSED BY THEMSELVES.

Your problem is that you see the "market" as a stand-alone Superman/Batman movie, when it's anything but, and DC is worried that the appeal of their two biggest characters won't reach past the circles they've both worn into the proverbial floor.Where I disagree with DC is that I don't think they NEED Batman/Superman to reach beyond themselves to draw people to other titles, but I'm least honest enough with myself that I can see what they're trying to do.
Click to expand...
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
Erronius_sl said:
I don't really care if you agree or not, and you can spout off numbers until you're blue in the face. We all know that Superman and Batman IPs are going to sell well no matter what. We talk about this constantly and were just talking about this within the span of the last few pages.Regardless of how you or I or anyone else feels about this particular interpretation of Supes/Batman, these IPs always have and likely always will generate huge box office gross numbers. So much so that I think your point is largely meaningless.
Click to expand...
I read your quote just fine, where you said that his point was meaningless, because these movies always do well based on name alone. That is not true. You tried to kill his argument based on an untruth. High School debate tactics at their best.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
Erronius_sl said:
You don't WANT this Batman, your mind is already made up. I don't really care all that much myself, this is just another Internet argument to me and people foaming at the mouth over it seems fucking bizarre.
Click to expand...
If you aren't into superhero movies, probably stop posting on them? The core of the problem is something Stan Lee said. In order for comic book movies to do well, you have to take the essence of who they are in the comics, and show that on the big screen. DC is doing the opposite. They are changing the essence of Superman and Batman, and giving us the opposite of who they were. Superman's relationships used to be important. He's now a loner. He used to have charm. Snyder deleted that. Batman only kills or uses lethal force in the direst of situations in the comics.Even my five year old asked during the movie, why is Batman shooting people? Maybe my five year old is more perceptive than you are, because he knows Batman doesn't do what he did.In the BvS, he killed and maimed guys he didn't need to. Snyder gives us more violent versions of the characters and more 'splosions. Michael Bay would be proud. All the while, they've done the opposite of what Stan Lee said.

Austin American Statesman_sl said:
I'm not sure what Snyder has against these characters, why he is so determined to make them as distasteful as possible.
Click to expand...
Austin American Statesman_sl said:
Everything is shrouded in a kind of black sludge, and frankly, it's depressing. Even the would-be iconic meeting of Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman looks like it was ground out from an old Xerox copier.
Click to expand...
These are not my quotes, but please continue to feel free white-knighting a movie with a 30% score.
 
Royal

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,641
Lyrical_sl said:
Batman only kills or uses lethal force in the direst of situations in the comics. Even my five year old asked during the movie, why is Batman shooting people? Maybe my five year old is more perceptive than you are, because he knows Batman doesn't do what he did.
Click to expand...
Mind you never read any of the Batman comics (was a Marvel guy) but my understanding is that the Frank Miller version of him was a much more violent take on the character. Is that correct?
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
Royal_sl said:
Mind you never read any of the Batman comics (was a Marvel guy) but my understanding is that the Frank Miller version of him was a much more violent take on the character. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
In alternate reality stories, and in stories from the 30's, he kills. He killed more people in the warehouse scene than he has in 70 years of the comics in the mainstream universe. And he has a rule, no guns. Dream or not, that was jarring.

There's a reason why he hasn't killed The Joker. He doesn't do that, even though we all know the next time Joker breaks out of Arkham, he's going to kill a minimum of 30 people.

When DC toyed with the idea of Batman using lethal force, they had to put someone else in Bruce's suit, because they knew we wouldn't believe it.

rrr_img_129702.jpg
 
Miguex

Miguex

The lad himself
<Gold Donor>
2,218
1,741
That is correct. But he still didn't use guns or not give a fuck about killing people. He was just brutal in what he did physically to criminals.

edit - that was responding to Royal
 
Chanur

Chanur

Shit Posting Professional
<Gold Donor>
26,719
39,030
Personally I think Superhero's not killing Supervillains is kind of retarded in this day and age. It's not the1950s anymore. Every time Batman let's the Joker go to jail he is complicit in the deaths of the hundreds he murders on his sprees.
I have not seen this movie yet though and am not making a comment on how bad or good it may be.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
42,458
50,596
Chanur_sl said:
Personally I think Superhero's not killing Supervillains is kind of retarded in this day and age. It's not the1950s anymore. Every time Batman let's the Joker go to jail he is complicit in the deaths of the hundreds he murders on his sprees.
I have not seen this movie yet though and am not making a comment on how bad or good it may be.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's retarded, but at least in Batman's case it's a pillar of the character at this point. Maybe THE pillar. In my opinion his no killing rule is the single biggest thing that indicates Batman is just as much of a sociopath as his villains are. I love when Jason rants at him about refusing to kill the Joker in Under the Red Hood and how many hundreds or thousands of people have died as a result.
 
Cantatus

Cantatus

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,437
79
Erronius_sl said:
Point is, DC's problem isn't that they can't make bank off of Superman/Batman. It's that's those two are really the only ones they've been able to do that with. They had a similar problem on the comics side and kept trying to reboot everything. Marvel IPs on the other hand have been dominating the market. DC doesn't JUST want to have to rely on the occasional Batman/Superman blockbuster, they wanted this movie to be a stepping stone into a larger DCU offering of movies...AND THE SUCCESS OF THAT ENDEAVOR HAS FUCK ALL TO DO WITH HOW MUCH TDK/TDKR GROSSED BY THEMSELVES.

Your problem is that you see the "market" as a stand-alone Superman/Batman movie, when it's anything but, and DC is worried that the appeal of their two biggest characters won't reach past the circles they've both worn into the proverbial floor. Where I disagree with DC is that I don't think they NEED Batman/Superman to reach beyond themselves to draw people to other titles, but I'm least honest enough with myself that I can see what they're trying to do.
Click to expand...
Which I think speaks to why DC is having trouble establishing their universe. It isn't so much that they're using Batman and Superman as a crutch, but that they seemingly have no confidence in their other properties to be able to sell themselves. That's why they're working backwards and Justice League gets priority over the lesser-known characters' movies. That's not really an option Marvel had due to selling off the rights to most of their well-known characters (Iron Man and Thor were obviously nowhere as big a part of pop culture as Spider-Man), which I think ended up working to their benefit. They were forced to sell their characters based on their own merit rather than rely on a tie-in to a popular character. I also think a part of it was they didn't have any previous successes to influence the direction they would take. The best they could do was emulate Sony or Fox if they wanted to go that route.

DC's is playing it far too safe, which is sort of understandable given the potential of these movies and the risk involved, but given how successful and popular comic book movies have become, I don't think "safe" is an approach which will blow away audiences. Not to mention, Marvel has proven you can have successful movies based around unknown characters if you do them well enough.

Chanur_sl said:
Personally I think Superhero's not killing Supervillains is kind of retarded in this day and age. It's not the1950s anymore. Every time Batman let's the Joker go to jail he is complicit in the deaths of the hundreds he murders on his sprees.
I have not seen this movie yet though and am not making a comment on how bad or good it may be.
Click to expand...
One of the approaches to Batman's character that I like is that this is a flaw in who he is as a person. There have been some storylines where the idea is thrown out that BatmanneedsJoker the same way Joker needs Batman. There is some fundamental part of Batman's core that is doing what he does for vengeance, and if he truly succeeds in getting rid of his enemies for good, he can no longer feed that part of himself. Some writers also point out that Batman isn't too far removed from the villains he chases. Not killing is him keeping himself from crossing that line and losing who he is - which is why there are a bunch of storylines where Joker tries to push Batman to that point (see: The Killing Joke and The Dark Knight).
 
Royal

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,641
Cantatus_sl said:
DC's is playing it far too safe, which is sort of understandable given the potential of these movies and the risk involved, but given how successful and popular comic book movies have become, I don't think "safe" is an approach which will blow away audiences. Not to mention, Marvel has proven you can have successful movies based around unknown characters if you do them well enough.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if it a case of them just playing it safe or they simply don't have talented people of the same caliber that Disney has assembled for their Marvel properties. From the studio exec, to the directors they bring in, to the actors cast in the roles, Marvel is just showing everyone how it's done. There is a broader vision at work over there.
 
Drakain

Drakain

Trakanon Raider
1,585
688
Can we all agree in this day and age, and as a society, that Batman is the hero we deserve, not the one we need?
 
Drakain

Drakain

Trakanon Raider
1,585
688
Royal_sl said:
I'm not sure if it a case of them just playing it safe or they simply don't have talented people of the same caliber that Disney has assembled for their Marvel properties. From the studio exec, to the directors they bring in, to the actors cast in the roles, Marvel is just showing everyone how it's done. There is a broader vision at work over there.
Click to expand...
Doesn't Warner Bros own/run the DCCU? And is the DCCU it's own entity within WB? Who is the Kevin Feige at the DCCU? That's who should be taking the blame.
 
Royal

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,641
Drakain_sl said:
Doesn't Warner Bros own/run the DCCU? And is the DCCU it's own entity within WB? Who is the Kevin Feige at the DCCU? That's who should be taking the blame.
Click to expand...
I don't know that they have anyone who is directly comparable to Feige in responsibilities solely for their comic book film and television properties.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

Trakanon Raider
3,053
133
I'll be generous and give it a 4 / 10.

It's going to do really well this weekend but it's going to die off completely once word gets out how bad it was. The pacing was really bad. Way too dream sequences. It was very dark and depressing and what little humor it had was very out of place. And every scene had a Zack Snyder patented "slow motion dramatic sequence."
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
Chanur_sl said:
Personally I think Superhero's not killing Supervillains is kind of retarded in this day and age. It's not the1950s anymore. Every time Batman let's the Joker go to jail he is complicit in the deaths of the hundreds he murders on his sprees.
I have not seen this movie yet though and am not making a comment on how bad or good it may be.
Click to expand...
Go see the movie, 90% of them are dead, the other 10 are paralyzed, quadriplegic, etc (if those are real world physics). I don't think any of them were simply KO'd. I thought about going to go see this at an IMAX again today to see if I missed any details, but didn't want the punishment. If anyone has a link to a screener, it would be appreciated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.