There's no support you can give for that that isn't entirely predicated on ignorance.
black islamist beheads British soldier in London
- Thread starter spronk
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[4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward. [4.75] ...fight in the way of Allah... [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Satan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Satan... [4.77] ...when fighting is prescribed for them...Our Lord! why hast Thou ordained fighting for us?...
...whoever flies in Allah's way [forsakes his home to fight in Jihad], he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Apostle, and then death overtakes him [in Jihad], his reward is indeed with Allah...[4.101] Rodwell: And when ye go forth to war in the land, it shall be no crime in you to cut short your prayers, if ye fear lest the infidels come upon you; Verily, the infidels are your undoubted enemies! [4.102]...let them take their arms...let them take their precautions and their arms...there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms...[4.103] Khalifa: Once you complete your Contact Prayer (Salat), you shall remember GOD while standing, sitting, or lying down. Once the war is over, you shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat); the Contact Prayers (Salat) are decreed for the believers at specific times.[4.104]...be not weak hearted in pursuit of the enemy..
...make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
[8.65] O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand [in other words, do not understand totalitarian ideologies like Islam]. [8.66] ...if there are a hundred patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a thousand they shall overcome two thousand by Allah's permission... [8.67] It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods [i.e., ransom money] of this world... [8.68] ...ransom... [8.69] Eat then of the lawful and good (things) which you have acquired in war [war spoils]...[8.70] O Prophet! say to those of the captives [non-Muslims] who are in your hands: If Allah knows anything good in your hearts, He will give to you better than that which has been taken away from you [in Jihad]...[8.71] Yusuf Ali: But if they have treacherous designs against thee, (O Apostle!)...He [Allah] given (thee) power over them...[8.72] Yusuf Ali: Those who ...fought for the Faith, with their property and their persons, in the cause of God...[8.73] Yusuf Ali: The Unbelievers are protectors, one of another: Unless ye do this, (protect each other), there would be tumult and oppression on earth, and great mischief. [8.74] Yusuf Ali:...fight for the Faith...[8.75] Yusuf Ali: ...fight for the Faith...
...slay the idolaters wherever you find them...take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush...
[9.12] ...fight the leaders of unbelief...[9.13] What! will you not fight a people...[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
TheBeagle
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There's plenty of non-islamic nations that have operated under western imperialism, had their resources exploited for profit, and faced unequal economic footing, similar to all those mid-east shitholes, that miraculously somehow don't make a national pastime out of chopping off the heads of infidels. The entire South American continent comes to mind...
TheBeagle
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The only way to do that is with a time machine. Those fuckers never forgive, never forget. If you believe any kind of reparations are going to make them suddenly stop wanting to cover the world in Islam, i.e. slit your throat while you sleep, then you are profoundly naive.
Not good enough to show that they have zealotry built into their belief system regardless if anyone ever lifts a finger?
You need to study your religions better, I know you are a Marxist and all which means you are probably atheist but you should know what you are fighting against or in this case defending.
The Islamic faith has their own zealotry built in without any need for stimuli to spark it.
Which "those fuckers" are we talking about? If you mean that there will be zero people on earth who dream of imposing Sharia law, sure. If you're talking about the major Islamic governments, you're already wrong.
You realize the terrorist talking point of recruitment has shifted heavily from "hate them for their freedom" to the more widely accepted "hate them because they're murdering you". You take that away, and yes, I believe rational minds may again prevail in that region, but they are going to go through some heavily fucked up times because of how much ammunition we've delivered. Iran was not too far from America considering the times before the installation of the Western supported dictator, so yes, I believe if they had been left alone and allowed to progress naturally, they would have and all signs of those times says that they were well on their way. I'm not defending Islam, as I'm an atheist and hope one day for rational thinking to finally overcome all religious zealotry.
TheBeagle
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Yes, it is strange bedfellows when I see fellow atheists and liberals defending Islam, which is far and away the most conservative, shove their religion down your throat group of people on the planet. It makes no sense. You can't support women's rights, gay rights, and Islam at the same time. Its retarded.
It's not good enough to quote a book which can and is interpreted in a million billion different ways, no. Not even close.
Yes, you've already said that. The actual test of that is to do something about the stimuli first rather than just insinuating that Islam is somehow inherently more crippled than every other dumbdumb religion on the planet (including yours).
You can't say that because the focus has shifted (according to you) that the original text isn't still there. They are being more effective at recruiting with this stance but they aren't going to erase the Koran once all the infidels are dead.
Your post is FILLED to the brim with "I believe" well let me tell you that doesn't mean shit and they will kill you just as quickly as me. You aren't converted you are an infidel and that's what they believe.
My "defense" of Islam is that it makes perfect sense that the people from the region of the world where Islam is a major thing would rally around it, given the socio-political environment during and since WWII. Of course it's a horrible shitty backward thing. The point is that we're not going to get rid of it by continuing to act like assholes.
The book is interpreted 100% verbatim just like protestants 'interpret' the Bible as literal word of God. You can't go into it as an outsider and claim you know more about how they "should" interpret it.
I am not saying Islam is crippled or dumb or anything else. They have a very strict set of rules though. One of those rules is to kill the infidel. That's a fact.
You won't get rid of it acting like assholes and you won't get rid of it by accepting them. See Europe for your anecdotal evidence. They are raping and pillaging that area of the world slowly but surely when the entire EU has done nothing but open their arms in support for the most part.
If the ONLY killing was towards Americans you might have had a valid point. It's not though. They kill any non Islamic person and even their own people.
Oh you mean completely differently by basically every single believer in that category? YEAH I KNOW.
Yeah it's a "fact" despite the fact that the vast VAST overwhelming majority of them don't do that. Dumb.
What a terrible example of not acting like assholes.
lol
Uh huh.
How has this been working out since...oh...the beginning of organized religion?
TheBeagle
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You aren't going to get rid of it at all. There's nothing we can do short of actual genocide, and obviously thats not a choice. But we can stop it's spread into our societies. If it takes being an asshole, so be it. I'd rather be an asshole than see my granddaughter wearing a fucking burka. The muslims have made it clear that in the end of this battle between our cultures there will be a winner and there will be a loser. I want to be the winner.
I also realize that we shoulder a lot of the blame for escalating things to this point, but so what? The past can't be changed and we have to deal with things as they are. It sucks, its unjust, whatever, but we have to win this one. There's no other choice.
Can I borrow your crystal ball some time?
Not caring about justice makes them right to hate us.