Breaking Bad

Walt lies continuously throughout the series. To others and himself. I would say Walt would have to be "making shit up" all the time otherwise he'd be paralyzed by cognitive dissonance.

"Elliot, if we're going to go that way, you'll need a bigger knife." That seemed like Mike talking.

Drtyrm is right. And it isn't said enough.

The whole series is predicated around his lying. Starting off with his initial response to cancer, right through Ozymandius.

Drtyrm_sl said:

Walt lies continuously throughout the series. To others and himself. I would say Walt would have to be "making shit up" all the time otherwise he'd be paralyzed by cognitive dissonance.

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Walt lies to manipulate people. Walt doesn't change what is happening to make it "okay" for him to overreact. That goes against the very core of what drives him, his ego is far too large to require that. The fact is, the cop didn't NEED to do anything but be kind of a dick for Walt to believe it was okay to holler and act threateningly. So why would he make something up that created that narrative? He wouldn't. And he never does this, at all, throughout the series.

But, like I asked the others for. Give me a situation where something happens, and then Walt (While not trying to manipulate someone else) says something different happened (IE justifying it to himself.) It just never happened in the series.

Again, the quote I took issue with.

spronk_sl said:

Walthas respun the pastso that Gretchen cheated on him and conspired with Elliot to steal his share of the company,none of which is probably true.[/B]

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And not just Spronk said this, others said it too. But something like this didn't happen at any point in the series. Walt didn't fabricate himself a narrative--he did it for other people, to manipulate them, but for himself? Never. He never needed to, he was always able to justify his actions despite their disproportionate nature to the problem.

Walt repeatedly says he is in the meth business for his family.

Walt admits in the finale he did it for himself.

Drtyrm_sl said:

Walt repeatedly says he is in the meth business for his family.

Walt admits in the finale he did it for himself.

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Did his family need money in the beginning? Was there a genuine need for that? Or did Walt make that up?

Edit: Pointing this out--because what I said took me by surprise was not Walt's over reaction, or how Walt justified the unjustifiable--but rather, that Walt would ever feel the need to make up an event in order to do it. He's never had to. Walt's NEED for money was real. His NEED to provide for him family was REAL, it was not made up. His "reaction" to that need? Sure, that was distorted. But he didn't just "make up" the need.

And that goes back to why it's mind blowing that people assume that whatever happened at Gray Matter was a fabrication by him. He's never fabricated the origin of his reaction--rather he's lied to himself about the extent to which he can justifiably respond. (IE my family needs money--Meth Empire seems justifiable! The needs money part is still true, even if the solution, the Meth Empire, was a lie. So going back, it doesn't seem likely that he would fabricate an affair and a coup at the company, really, at all--What seems more in line with events in the show is that there was some kind of coup, or affair, and Walt went off his rocker and disproportionately responded.)

I don't think Walt was cooking for himself above his family until after Gus was dead. Before that he was doing it for his family and doing the manipulating to keep them and himself/Jesse safe. It's not until the, "Say my name," scene that you realize Walt has transitioned to doing it completely out of hubris.

Lenas_sl said:

I don't think Walt was cooking for himself above his family until after Gus was dead. Before that he was doing it for his family and doing the manipulating to keep them and himself/Jesse safe. It's not until the, "Say my name," scene that you realize Walt has transitioned to doing it completely out of hubris.

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Yeah, exactly. And that's the thing. I'm not saying Walt doesn't distort his solutions, but no where in the show has he distorted a problem. The PROBLEM, the need for money, was not a lie--not at all. The lie only came in saying it was for his family, long after he surpassed the original 700k he needed to ensure his families future.

One thing I didn't like is that it seems Aaron Paul is bulking during this last 8.

Well, it's not like he had shit else to do in his hole other than work out and seethe with rage.

Lenas_sl said:

I don't think Walt was cooking for himself above his family until after Gus was dead. Before that he was doing it for his family

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Look. You won the contest and all, but hearing folks say "You know...despite the fact the writer spelled it out and spoonfed us. I'm going to argue with the fiction and claim the writer was just being obtuse." is retarded

He was nearly a pathological liar the entire damn series. He never did it for his family. He was offered help from DAY 1. By Hank, by Elliot. And that worked out real well for all of them.

chaos_sl said:

Well, it's not like he had shit else to do in his hole other than work out and seethe with rage.

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It's the ice cream that made him look fat after s5 e8, I swear!

Jait_sl said:

Look. You won the contest and all, but hearing folks say "You know...despite the fact the writer spelled it out and spoonfed us. I'm going to argue with the fiction and claim the writer was just being obtuse." is retarded

He was nearly a pathological liar the entire damn series. He never did it for his family. He was offered help from DAY 1. By Hank, by Elliot. And that worked out real well for all of them.

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Yeah. At no point in the show did he ever "need" to cook meth to provide for his family. He chose to do that because his pride or whatever wouldn't allow him to take what help was offered. He didn't need the money. He did, however, need the feeling he got by doing this crazy shit for two years. And the affirmation of his genius.

Lithose, you seem to be arguing that Walter White is infallible because he's a good scientist. He's terrible at communicating and relating to others.

Lithose, I like discussing this with you but will you quit editing your posts? You are changing word choice and it makes a difference.

Jait_sl said:

He was nearly a pathological liar the entire damn series. He never did it for his family. He was offered help from DAY 1. By Hank, by Elliot. And that worked out real well for all of them.

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It's complicated, no one thing is responsible for everything that's happened. Yes, Walt's pride stopped him from taking hand-outs from his family and the Schwartz's toward his medical bills. That's not the whole story, though. Not only did he need to cover the medical bills, but he also wanted to leave funds for his family lasting long after he was gone. College funds for Jr., etc. The Schwartz's did pretty much offer to cut a blank check but I can't really blame him for turning that down, deep down he pretty much hates their guts.

Lenas_sl said:

It's complicated, no one thing is responsible for everything that's happened. Yes, Walt's pride stopped him from taking hand-outs from his family and the Schwartz's toward his medical bills. That's not the whole story, though. Not only did he need to cover the medical bills, but he also wanted to leave funds for his family lasting long after he was gone. College funds for Jr., etc. The Schwartz's did pretty much offer to cut a blank check but I can't really blame him for turning that down, deep down he pretty much hates their guts.

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He didn'tneedto do that, he chose to cook crank in order to do that so he wouldn't have to swallow his own pride and take a blank check that could have solved every problem in his life. His wife was an intelligent, professional woman. She would have provided for the family well enough in the event of his death.

Ok lith. I think i get what you mean. Walt has never called a duck a frog or called a frog when there is nothing at all. My point about jesse is that walt used jesse to get into the meth business. He figured jesse was a weak punk that would always be his Igor to walt's dr frankenstein. Jesse was no igor. He turned on walt several times. But despite that and despite the fact that walt could have made a clean break from jesse. He still stuck with him. And it cost him dearly.

As i said earlier i agree with you that gretchen and eliot did something tangible to rub walt raw. However that does not mean walt is infallible about reading people and their motives

chaos_sl said:

He didn'tneedto do that, he chose to cook crank in order to do that so he wouldn't have to swallow his own pride and take a blank check that could have solved every problem in his life. His wife was an intelligent, professional woman. She would have provided for the family well enough in the event of his death.

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Whether or not he technically needed to do it is irrelevant to his motivation. He still did it for his family, up until a certain point. He was never willing to swallow his pride, which led to his choice, but his motivation was still "for my family."

That's cutting the statement short to frame it in a certain way. A more accurate way to say it would be "I am doing this for my family because of my own ego and need to be in charge, and inability to accept help from others." Walt had a lot of issues that compounded at the moment he found out he was dying. But he had plenty of options that didn't involve manufacturing meth, or continuing to manufacture meth after he reached his goal. In the end he put everyone in his life at risk for his own hubris, and they all paid.