Breaking the Spirit of a Willful Child...

hodj · May 17, 2017

Everything children know they learn from their parents and their culture.

Everything.

You're tough ass dude attitude is certainly a core component of the issue here, frankly.

You need more empathy and less concern for outcomes and social judgement. The issue should be "I love my child, I want them to have a healthy, happy life where they are able to self actualize and become the best possible version of their authentic selves they can be" not "I don't want my kid to turn out a thug who dies to a cop related shooting accident, so I"m going to brow beat a six year old like he's a ball of play dough until he comes out the way I want".

You will, by definition, not get what you want by trying to force it. Children have a funny way of rebelling against that sort of behavior by their parents, and yes, learning to resent them. Why would a child who resents you ever turn out the way you want?

You're right. No one gives you a training manual when you have kids. The way you get the training manual is by employing empathy.

Shonuff said:
To be honest, it's not. When you are talking about affluent children, most parents will tell you it went sideways with their kids early, and got worse from there. The kid that wouldn't listen to teacher is the same kid that would listen to anyone about drugs, and ended up in and out of rehab.

I know it's kind of a different subject, but not really. The first generation suffers to make the money, the second generation blows most of it, and the third generation tries to bring it back.

I can name families around here where they have so much money, the kid (who is now supposed to be in charge of the business), is sitting at the lake house doing lines all day. Sounds good in theory, but someone has to be minding the store. When these kids haven't had to work for it, they are soft and they don't even know it. I wouldn't trade the time after college, where I barely had rent money for anything. I can remember sitting there staring at the vending machines, wondering how people could afford those 50 cent cans of soda. The pain we feel in the valleys defines us for the rest of our lives.

Yeah those kids were spoiled and ignored. Their parents thought proper parenting was throwing money at them then ignoring them the rest of the time.

You're really off the reservation here if you don't get that. There are lots of kids of wealthy parents who turn out fine because their parents actually interacted with them, rather than letting the video games and tv raise them with a maid and nanny in the house while mom and dad worked 80 hour weeks and spent their down time drinking themselves into stupidity to forget how much their lives suck because they're chained to their jobs for some dollar bills.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

BrutulTM said:
Seeing him covering his ears in the principal's office and extrapolating that out into a vision of him dying in a hail of police bullets at 17 is a very parental way of thinking

This is exactly what I fear. No one in my family (on either side) has been called into the Principal's office for anything, ever. I wasn't the best kid in the world, but I knew when the teacher raised their voice to me I better STFU. I got in trouble up until my Junior year in HS (when it dawned on me I was going to have to pay my own bills). But not like this. It's too far.

hodj · May 17, 2017

No, its perfectly normal.

You're acting like being called into the principle's office is some world shaking end of times nuclear war scenario.

Its just a principle. Its just an office. Its just a discussion with your kid because they aren't behaving in school.

He's a six year old boy. They're forcing him to sit still for 6 and 8 hours a day doing boring ass school work that he's probably 100% too smart to waste his time with.

The four horsemen of the apocalypse aren't waiting in the wings because your little angel got called into the principles office.

BrutulTM · May 17, 2017

Living in a farming/ranching community, basically everyone I know is a small business owner who wants their kids to take over the business but it's amazing how many ways that can get fucked up. There are people whose kids are 60 years old and not authorized to sign a check for the ranch because their 80 year old Dad won't give up control of anything. There are grown men who get in screaming matches with their Dad like they were 7 years old. It's really pretty fucking hard to pull off. From what I've seen I think it's important for kids to go out in the world and make their own living for a while and then when they come back it's as a grown man who made a career decision and not as a kid who just did what dad told them to do. I was 31 when I moved back and had a good career going so I knew I was here by choice and not because somebody told me to and not because I didn't have any other options.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

hodj said:
You're tough ass dude attitude is certainly a core component of the issue here, frankly.

Bullshit. My daughter was raised tougher (let's be real, all first children are), and she's a model citizen. There is something that has been in his personality since he was a toddler, where he's been defiant, and that never went away.

BrutulTM · May 17, 2017

Shonuff said:
Bullshit. My daughter was raised tougher (let's be real, all first children are), and she's a model citizen. There is something that has been in his personality since he was a toddler, where he's been defiant, and that never went away.

That's the point though. He's not your daughter and just because something worked with her doesn't mean it's going to work with him. Kids are people, not modeling clay. You can direct them, but you can't make them into something that they're not.

hodj · May 17, 2017

Not bullshit. I've got decades more experience with this than you do. Girls are naturally more compliant than boys. That's how they operate.

What you are interpreting as defiance is actually just him being more independent and willing to question.

That is something you should nurture, not crush.

iannis · May 17, 2017

Shonuff said:
We haven't done it for him, but his sister registered in the top 5%. And yeah, she gets bored, but she's in the #1 school in the state right now.

She's also a she.

If you're black why haven't you already whupped him. White guys can be sorta pussies about it but whenever there's a crying seven year old around I can count on my one black friend to say, "that little boy need an asswhuppin".

Right on, one black friend. Right on.

Truth. Little boys just take the pimp hand sometimes. It's an unfortunate part of male sexuality. We learn to control it, but it's fifteen years before were even able to identify the problem. Until he can do that it'll just be occasional smacks as he crosses lines.

iannis · May 17, 2017

It's a problem when it's the only or primary tool in your parent box.

But it's a valid tool with valid uses. Women write parenting books. And it's complete bullshit anyway. I've seen way more mothers smack their kids than fathers.

A physical sport is cheating, kinda. It's outsourcing spanking. But also it does a lot of good for a young boy.

Soygen · May 17, 2017

EDIT: Dammit, this is the Grown Up section?!

alavaz · May 17, 2017

Honestly I think a lot of kids are going to be how they are going to be no matter how hard you try. Parenting sort of feels like a house of cards sometimes because kids will definitely learn from you but rarely will learn exactly what you think you are teaching. You might yell at them and hope that they listened to the words when all they really learned was to yell at someone when they are mad.

I try to make sure my son has motivation to do his school work and to excel at it. My son definitely will resist doing things he doesn't find interesting. He's not really argumentative or anything but if you tell him to color a picture or something and he's not interested, he'll start to do it but just wind up day dreaming a few minutes later and never finish what he started. I used to just take things away when he didn't finish school work, but that only produced half ass results where he'd "finish it" but it would be the absolute bare minimum. To get him to start putting in more effort I had to dangle a few carrots - i.e. if the teacher gives you +'s on all of your assignments this week, we'll get dairy queen on Saturday. Doesn't always work, but works better than just punishment alone.

Lenardo · May 17, 2017

Sounds like he needs something the requires him to learn discipline and respect for others. martial arts is a good way to do this, sports too, to a lesser extent.

but kids will be kids, i have 3 kids 12 12 and 15, of the 3, the most willful one is the one that generally does best in school. and as what was said, girls are COMPLETELY different than boys.

Daelos · May 17, 2017

A good martial arts school, and a rigid structure at home that includes housework.

Zaara · May 17, 2017

I was the second child, and I was an absolute terror. My older sister has 7 years on me and was pretty much how you describe your daughter, but its because she was raised completely different from I was. Of course both of us came into fearing and respecting our parents in our own time, but she had it a lot harder than I did.

Made sense, I guess. My parents are wealthy now, but didn't have much of anything when my sister was growing up. Once I came around the game had changed so I became spoiled, resistant to authority, and terribly convinced of my own magnificence. In my experience it wasn't exactly the 'best' thing to tell a child they're smarter than all their peers and that their poor performance in school is because they are 'unchallenged.' It is not a good age to start developing a superiority complex if you're aiming to bring them up in respect of authority. I was the kind of kid that actually got her parents in trouble for acting out because of the shitty implications of my actions. Example: when I was five years old they called a parent-teacher conference to discuss the disturbing nature of some homework I had taken home. It was a drawing sheet with Adam and Eve on it, on which I was supposed to add clothes. I drew them naked. You can imagine that was a shitty thing for my parents to have to explain.

I got broken out of it, eventually, but it wasn't a pleasant road. It was hardly a house in which corporal punishment was used often, but when it did happen it was something that stays with you. I'll never forget the morning where I was being a complete cunt to my mom and she snapped and thrashed me upside the head. I will never forget the day where my dad physically dragged me out of a Strawberry's and hissed he was ashamed of me because i made a scene in front of all the other customers. Shame is a powerful, powerful motivator. These days people are afraid of harming or fucking their kids up by exposing them to negative feelings and experiences, but it has to happen. A wayward kid has to be shown there are negative consequences to not acting correctly. I received plenty of positive reinforcement but its the negative reinforcement that molds you into compliance.

It's already been mentioned your kid is 6 and you may be a bit too worried about his life-path at the present juncture, and I kind of have to agree with that. Your kid's old enough to be forming his own personality, certainly, but at six years old he's still something of a tabula rasa. It's only been a few years since the kid came to the realization that he is an individual person and the people around him aren't just extensions of his own personality, for instance. He's young, you've got time.

chaos · May 17, 2017

hodj said:
Yeah those kids were spoiled and ignored. Their parents thought proper parenting was throwing money at them then ignoring them the rest of the time.

Yeah man, I don't have the same situation so I don't really know, but I know enough to know that everyone thinks they are fucking up as a parent, no one has it figured out. But if you're trying, you're probably not fucking up that bad. Those people born into wealth who become fucktards? I'm more inclined to believe they had absentee/fucktard parents than anything else. I don't think there is much to be gained by riding a 6 year old. That will only get you so far before it starts paying negative returns.

Breakdown · May 17, 2017

Shonuff said:
This is exactly what I fear. No one in my family (on either side) has been called into the Principal's office for anything, ever. I wasn't the best kid in the world, but I knew when the teacher raised their voice to me I better STFU. I got in trouble up until my Junior year in HS (when it dawned on me I was going to have to pay my own bills). But not like this. It's too far.

George Bush was President. I think we can shut down the idea that one trip to the office is going to put him on a bad path.

Just get the kid on coke and he will change the world.

How old is your daughter? When daddy is a hard ass and they are perfect angels, they tend to crash and burn real quick when they get into their teens and college. I would worry more about that.

Xarpolis · May 17, 2017

Hard work pays off. It seems to be for Your life as well as Trump's children. Maybe you should take more of a "hands off" approach? If they want to do something, have them work towards that something. Don't just be a "please daddy" bank account of unlimited funds. They can afford their own toys. Maybe give them an incredibly modest allowance of like $1.50 a week. That way they can aim for an eventual goal of something they really want.

Shonuff · May 17, 2017

Xarpolis said:
Hard work pays off. It seems to be for Your life as well as Trump's children. Maybe you should take more of a "hands off" approach? If they want to do something, have them work towards that something. Don't just be a "please daddy" bank account of unlimited funds. They can afford their own toys. Maybe give them an incredibly modest allowance of like $1.50 a week. That way they can aim for an eventual goal of something they really want.

They only get gifts on their birthday, Christmas or for a good report card. The problem is that I have 60,000+ videogames in my mancave, that are mine. They play them when they want.

My 11 year old has started asking questions like, "Do we have money?". And the answer is, we do, but you don't have anything. She hears the contract amounts we discuss over dinner. I remember when I lived on the east coast. My best friend at the time, his family was exceptionally wealthy. His Dad was a successful broker on Wall Street. I'm talking they had a multi million dollar mansion in the 80's. My friend thought it was his money. When everyone else went off to college, he sat at home until 21 or 22, he just couldn't get his shit together. Finally, he got a college to accept him as a music major (he was in a band).

Trying to get your kids to appreciate being broke, when they've never seen it is tough. I know it sounds perverse, but everyone should spend some time in poverty. It gives you a different perspective on life.

Mur · May 17, 2017

He's a boy in a school system that has been re-designed from the ground up to ignore the needs of boys, to instead focus on the needs of girls. How much recess does he get? How many chances to get a bloody nose, or dirty clothes, or wrestle to figure out pecking order? Boys need all of that to function well, they need to be able to challenge, and learn about losing, and striving to overcome. Boys don't need gold stars, or rainbows, or any of the other rewards many little girls live for.

You want him to behave, he needs to be worn out. Do you spend time rough housing with him? Playing football, tossing a ball, wrestling on the lawn? If not please get him into a program that will challenge him physically. His mind will follow. Jiu jitsu has done wonders for my buddies shy little brat. He is now an animal on the mat, has a ton of friends, and has learned discipline, respect, and most importantly, how to deal with losing in a mature way. (And he is now an A student who listens to his teachers.) Get him into weight lifting, no six is not too young, just make sure he isn't pushing any limits. Swimming is another great one. Get that boy exhausted daily. Then love on him. MY dad was a hard ass, but when he hugged me, man I was on cloud nine; that love goes a long way.

Zaara · May 17, 2017

Agree with everyone saying to get the kid into physical sports, too, 100%.

Swimming is pretty good (when the kid gets older). YMCA had a really, really good swimming program around here, starting with kids as young as 4 and going up into high school. Having two hours three times a week to just do lap after lap and practice drills...it wears you the fuck out, but it was like being a puppy getting taken to the dog park. Mean you're also talking the extra time investment of driving the kid around to swim meets if you go that route, but. Parents sharing (or at least feigning) an interest in their kid's competitive spirit is some helpful shit. Also cool when your kid ends up looking like a little swole Michael Phelps.

Breaking the Spirit of a Willful Child...

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