Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

Mario Speedwagon · May 21, 2015

Mist_sl said:
I asked her specifically in an email for the definition of attempted forcible rape they used:

"try to have sexual intercourse with you (but it did not happen) when you indicated that you didn't want to? " using either tactic: threat of force or force."

Where "sexual intercourse" was defined as penetration.

So only those behaviors using either of those tactics counted as attempted forcible rape.

That doesn't really make sense to me. 18.6% of freshmen are threatened with force or have force used on them for sex but manage to escape? I'm sure all the girls who answered that question affirmatively felt pretty uncomfortable or threatened but "attempted forcible rape"? Unless there's a literal rape dungeon on this campus, I find these numbers pretty hard to believe.

Mist · May 21, 2015

Palum_sl said:
SO 1/5th of dudes are pussies who say stuff like "You better have sex with me or I'll fucking wreck your face!" Then she says no and gets away?

I'm confuzzled.

Not 1/5th of dudes.

Think about this logically. 1 dude can rape/attempt to rape any number of girls, if no one does anything to stop him. 40 girls? No problem.

Brodhi · May 21, 2015

Cad_sl said:
How lucky they are to have a genius like you to help them out!

How fucking old are you anyway, acting like "these new kids are stupider than ever!" ??

Every generation ever has said the generation following them are the dumbest ever, meanwhile society is more advanced than ever.

Society is more advanced than ever? Really? WTF is your definition of the word 'advanced'.

I don't agree with much of what Myst says, but she hit the nail on the head here. The sheltered social media obsessed typical high school kid going into college is dumb as shit. Parents and HS teachers let kids just float on by and you are left with a collective cluster-fuck level of intelligence coupled with the desire to be shit-faced 24/7 and hitting the clubs.

Kirun · May 21, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Hey, tons of US military gear says "This end towards enemy" on it.

But no, I disagree. 18 year old (especially white) girls are ridiculously sheltered and naive, now more than ever due to being spoiled and their face stuck in their phones their entire childhood. They see a party, ON CAMPUS, run by a student organization that is sanctioned BY THE SCHOOL, and assume that it is reasonably safe. Yes, that is a VERY stupid thing to assume, but schools aren't educating these girls as to the dangers, instead focusing on 'teaching boys not to rape' which is NOT WORKING OUT WELL. Schools need to be doing both, AND reviewing what kind of student organizations they want to implicitly endorse.

Complains that young girls are naive, sheltered, spoiled, and coddled. Wants to shelter, spoil, and coddle them further. Makes sense.

Mist · May 21, 2015

Kirun_sl said:
Complains that young girls are naive, sheltered, spoiled, and coddled. Wants to shelter, spoil, and coddle them further. Makes sense.

Wanting schools to refrain from implicitly endorsing the behavior that happens at campus (frat) parties is not the same thing as sheltering, spoiling or coddling.

Mario Speedwagon · May 21, 2015

Have you ever been to a frat party?

Mist · May 21, 2015

Dr. Mario Speedwagon_sl said:
Have you ever been to a frat party?

You couldn't pay me to get anywhere near the greek houses on my campus.

AladainAF · May 21, 2015

How are you such an expert on them then?

Mist · May 21, 2015

Well, let's see, I train tutors on campus, and they tell me things I really wish I didn't know.

For years I worked in an office right across the hall from the main greek life office, so I heard about every single time that a house was under investigation for something.

Way back when I was an undergrad the first time, 3 of my friends from my CS classes were in TKE, and they didn't have an on-campus house but they always had all the dirt on the other houses, but I take all that shit with a grain of salt.

Palum · May 21, 2015

I'm confused, is it impossible for college women to stay away from those supposed deathtraps?

Mist · May 21, 2015

Palum_sl said:
I'm confused, is it impossible for college women to stay away from those supposed deathtraps?

You're missing the point.

By allowing a student organization to host parties in direct violation of both the law and campus policies, they are implicitly endorsing and condoning the behavior that happens at those parties. This gives the illusion of safety to your average 18 year old sheeplewomanchild.

You don't teach a kid that the stove is hot by implying to him that the stove is perfectly safe and then letting him burn himself and laugh at his misfortune in hopes that it teaches him a lesson.

You tell the kid the stove is hot and then when he burns himself anyway, then you laugh at him.

Mario Speedwagon · May 21, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Well, let's see, I train tutors on campus, and they tell me things I really wish I didn't know.

For years I worked in an office right across the hall from the main greek life office, so I heard about every single time that a house was under investigation for something.

Way back when I was an undergrad the first time, 3 of my friends from my CS classes were in TKE, and they didn't have an on-campus house but they always had all the dirt on the other houses, but I take all that shit with a grain of salt.

iannis · May 21, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Right, so you didn't even bother to read the study at all.

483 women entering the college were surveyed, then followup surveys were performed on that same sample every 4 months, for a total of 1 baseline measurement and 3 measurements after 3 interval periods.

I'm not overstating anything and I know very well what I'm talking about and you clearly do not.

No. I read the entire thing. You don't get to run away from that one. READ the fucking thing and think about the process of their research. Think about the biases and assumptions inherent in their process. Think about the information that they most likely have, but are not presenting within that 2 page abstract.

Then think about the fact that you got confused and tried to assert that 22% of college girls are raped. You are overstating the shit out of it just trying to score a point.

The one part of that survey that I find to be absolutely credible, and do not take any methodological issue with, the 11.4% is still plenty bad enough to be considered a serious problem. There may not BE a problem with the second and third measures either. But we don't have the questionairre (it was a long one, and these 4 questions were less than 10% of it), and we don't have any reason to assume either way. It's an open question. That paragraph about past rapes being a future indicator sets off a yellow flag for me personally though. And just including a column where it's quantized then claiming the issue has been addressed sets of a giant red one.

Fucking think. It's more important to study the issue with an eye to mitigating it than it is to be self-validated.

iannis · May 21, 2015

God damn social science voodoo.

I do think it was an honest study conducted in good faith and of some limited use. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't include alcohol statistics since that was their funding. But there are also 36+ questions they asked which aren't relevant to these 2 pages.

I don't think it was an entirely useful or honest set of data to compile. 2 pages, 3 results, an incredibly simple process, and I have bigger questions about self-selection and subjective measures after reading it than I had before.

I don't know how else you would do it. So I don't think we need to go hang the good lady doctors for witchcraft. But that's what critical thinking is for, taking their results and trying to interpret what they might actually mean.

Ignatius · May 21, 2015

Mist_sl said:
Well, let's see, I train tutors on campus, and they tell me things I really wish I didn't know.

For years I worked in an office right across the hall from the main greek life office, so I heard about every single time that a house was under investigation for something.

Way back when I was an undergrad the first time, 3 of my friends from my CS classes were in TKE, and they didn't have an on-campus house but they always had all the dirt on the other houses, but I take all that shit with a grain of salt.

Isn't this the textbook definition of hearsay?

fanaskin · May 21, 2015

did they put the greek houses under double secret probation?

Aaron · May 21, 2015

Here's a thing about this whole informed consent thing. Let's say this catches on and becomes a thing, and I'm not talking about silly shit like signing in triplicate, just a plain "Do you want to have sex?" "Yes, I want to have sex." Right, how long until people start claiming they were forced or coerced or duped or some shit into giving the consent? If the non-verbal body language that has worked ok since humans evolved those traits isn't good enough any more, why should verbal language work?

How do you prove that the verbal consent was freely given if the victim claims otherwise? Isn't this just kicking the can further down the street?

And for that matter, even if we do go full retard and sign papers and video tape consents and shit like that, is that going to be enough for the people driving this agenda? What if someone signs the papers, looks into the camera and says yes, but then afterwards says that they didn't mean it but were afraid to say no? Wouldn't they still look on that as rape?

The point I'm getting at, if someone's going to go out and god damn rape another person, is all this shit going to stop them? Or is it just going to piss everyone else off, cause god knows how much confusion, and be a huge waste of time while real bonafide hardcore rapists will just keep on raping?

Agraza · May 21, 2015

Similar to the digital piracy issue where 99% of the time pirates aren't stopped or even slowed down by preventative effort and legitimate customers are annoyed?

I hadn't thought of that angle, and I can't see why they would accept verbal consent or even recorded verbal consent as a superior amount of proof. They'll just keep on that there was some pressure. And then we'll be having to what, dismiss taped declarations as coerced in order to protect even those retards? These people have an agenda and they'll continue to pursue it regardless of where the line is set or what the majority thinks is reasonable. Some are already at that advanced stage, claiming that all sex is rape. Women are never capable of giving consent in some people's minds. I'm not comfortable infantilizing half of our species.

Famm · May 21, 2015

Mist, you should infiltrate some frat parties and try to expose yourself to rape attempts in order to start busting these violent apes. You'll be like Batgirl of the uni campus! Do different schools if you think you'd be recognized too easily.

Cad · May 21, 2015

Mist_sl said:
It's got 3 PhDs signed onto it, from arguably the world's premier behavioral sciences department, and you're still arguing.

"Facts over feels, until the facts disagree with us."

In this case, they just asked a bunch of people for their feels data and collated it. Do you feel like you were raped? Yes/no Repeat 500 times "RAPE IS A HUGE PROBLEM OMGWTF"

Surveys. Fucking surveys. There are no "facts" here.

Butthurt white guys, an Asian virgin and an angry lesbian walk into a bar...

Gold Recognition

Eeyore Enthusiast

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

Buzzfeed Editor

Eeyore Enthusiast

Gold Recognition

Eeyore Enthusiast

Best Rabbit

Eeyore Enthusiast

what Suineg set it to

Eeyore Enthusiast

Gold Recognition

Musty Nester

Musty Nester

#thePewPewLife

Well known agitator

Goonsquad Officer

Registered Hutt

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

scientia potentia est