Captain Marvel (2019)
- Thread starter Sumdain x
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I background-noise watched through the first 5 seasons last month and there was actually a surprising amount (compared to what I remembered) of feminist stuff in it, but it was always in a tone of comedy and never came across as fart-sniffing. It was empowering to women without belittling men. If it was remade now I agree with you that it would just be a heavy-handed "men are the source of all problems" approach.
pharmakos
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Harshaw
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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“Poopsogynist trolls get whiff of turd and review bomb it for tasting like shit before they even eat it.”
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Lithose
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That's really the key difference between the current cancer and old school feminist characters. Look at Mad Max fury road--it is totally a female centered film, with really overt female empowerment symbolism--and it was great. Mainly because the writers didn't try to raise the main character up by putting men down. Bad men were just the bad guys, they weren't some stand in for masculinity, and the women even showed compassion for the 'war boys' plight, understanding that just because they were men didn't mean they weren't also abused. (Edit: It showed actual feminine strengths, like empathy, being productive by turning the warboy into an ally.). Also, the writers didn't have to try and make the heroine ridiculous to make her powerful--she lost a physical confrontation with Max even though Max was literally chained up, and 4 other women were holding him back (Edit: one of the big things that made Furiousa so compelling, they weren't afraid to show her fail.). But in other ways, she showed she was Max's equal, or even better than him.
I love the rifle scene. Because it shows how subtly the writers showed she respected Max (But still also showed she had her own strengths over him.). You can see her wanting to say "let me take the shot, I'm a better shot with a long gun"--but she doesn't. Because she respects him, and doesn't want to insult him--she trusts him to asses the situation. If this had been a more modern feminist hot-take, there would have been some dialogue about him being a man baby, and to let her show him how its done--then additional dialogue about 'shows you not to doubt a woman!" after she succeeds where he failed. Then later in the truck there would have been some dialogue among the women about how men are too insecure to let women be strong. It's just all so tiring, and undermines the one thing these idiots say they want by making their characters into whining, preachy, dogmatic idiots--rather than an actual bad ass female character.
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Couldn't have said it any better. Another aspect of this is you'll never see men bitching or complaining about Furiosa as a character. (Outside of some seriously rabid Incel types) Even if they don't understand why they like her in place of another female character, they know on some level that one is a genuine character made with care, and another is just a message being preached to them.
You can see similar situations being played out across the entertainment spectrum all the time now. Guys are really fucking spiteful (warranted) towards things that are poorly made attempts and shoe-horning women in, or are just diversity pamphlets-in-motion, compared to a quality product where diversity and women are featured, but are very clearly not focused on that aspect, where guys are just "yeah, that shit was awesome" or "I really enjoyed it". The people pushing for the social justice aspects simply are completely ignorant of the nuances between the two mentalities, if they even notice that it exists at all.
And as I mentioned previously, Brie knocked this movie out of any potential for fair consideration long before it even released. I'm not going to even attempt to connect with this movie anymore than I would try to connect to a homeless man flinging his rancid shit at me as I'm walking down the street.
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TBT-TheBigToe
Gemcutter
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Well shiver me timbers...
Then this here movie shall be a catch from the seas for me and my crew, yeeharrrr.
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Chris
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There's a whole bunch of famous examples of compelling female heroines.
I think the problem is that men are usually attracted to hero's journey type stories (sorting things out themselves) but women are usually attracted to romance stories (someone sorts things out for them). That means that the stories are being written by men for men and you get women buying your story by having a romance sub plot, causing the hero characters to be predominantly male.
There's lots of counter examples of course, but for those to work you need an amazing writer, all the average writers need to play it safe and conform to sterotype.
I'd be really interested what the demographics of people watching Kill Bill Vol 1 was, did more women watch it because it had pretty much only female characters or did less watch it because there was no romance plot?
Muurloen
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The article made me vomit, then I looked at who wrote it, and of course it was a female!
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LiquidDeath
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This made me remember growing up and playing basketball at the YMCA in my early teens. There was a black girl that always played with the guys that could flat out ball. She was always the first picked after the tall dudes were taken. None of the guys ever talked shit to her they couldn't back up and nobody ever mentioned she was a girl. Also, and this is the part feminists would balk at, no one ever looked down on any of the guys she schooled or took to the rack. Everyone knew she could play so they just played ball with her.
It really irritates me more than almost anything that men in general are given short shrift about their ability to handle women besting them. Mainly because women are just as fucking bad when they think someone lower or less than them outperforms them, men are just more willing to outright tell you when they get pissed off about it. It is a human trait, not a male one, and it is infuriating to see the media run with such a blatant falsehood.
This movie seems like it is going to be a monument to everything we though Black Panther was going to be, diversity wise, but wasn't. It will probably be on par as far as quality, though.
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Valderen
Space Pirate
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The issue I have with strong female characters today compared to 20+ years ago with Ripley and Sarah Connors is that in those days it was never about them being woman having to work harder to be seen as man's equal.
It was just about a character that happened to be female surmounting impossible odds. They were no compared to men. Men didn't have to be dumb and stupid just to elevate the woman above them.
I'm sure Captain Marvel will show Carol struggling to be accepted in the army as a pilot because she's a woman and showing she's men's equal or better. Probably the same in the group of Kree, I'm sure she'll be seen as inferior and will prove herself the better.
Hopefully Marvel doesn't hit you in the face too much with it. The scene with Shuri in Infinity War with Banner isn't making too confident though. They could have done the same scene without making her condescending in the way she addressed Banner, and have him not look like kid who just caught doing something bad.
As for Brie, I have been avoiding any of her promotional appearance. Her being stupid won't prevent me from enjoying the movie if it's good, I mean I've enjoyed Tom Cruise's movie and the guy is a nutcase.
It was just about a character that happened to be female surmounting impossible odds. They were no compared to men. Men didn't have to be dumb and stupid just to elevate the woman above them.
I'm sure Captain Marvel will show Carol struggling to be accepted in the army as a pilot because she's a woman and showing she's men's equal or better. Probably the same in the group of Kree, I'm sure she'll be seen as inferior and will prove herself the better.
Hopefully Marvel doesn't hit you in the face too much with it. The scene with Shuri in Infinity War with Banner isn't making too confident though. They could have done the same scene without making her condescending in the way she addressed Banner, and have him not look like kid who just caught doing something bad.
As for Brie, I have been avoiding any of her promotional appearance. Her being stupid won't prevent me from enjoying the movie if it's good, I mean I've enjoyed Tom Cruise's movie and the guy is a nutcase.
Drinsic
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Think someone already pointed it out, but Cruise didn't go around shitting all over the fanbase during interviews.As for Brie, I have been avoiding any of her promotional appearance. Her being stupid won't prevent me from enjoying the movie if it's good, I mean I've enjoyed Tom Cruise's movie and the guy is a nutcase.
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