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Khane said:
Amazing how fast technology advances when there's demand and competition.
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Hopefully when it actually comes out it has more than 190 miles of range.

249 miles doesn’t exactly blow my skirt up when the $75k model S has 370 miles.

We all know none of them get the rated mileage except in good conditions, so having a big buffer is important.
 
Khane

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80% charge in 20 minutes is pretty good though. Obviously still nowhere near as fast as refueling a gas tank but getting closer.
 
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Khane said:
80% charge in 20 minutes is pretty good though. Obviously still nowhere near as fast as refueling a gas tank but getting closer.
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What % charge it can get in what minutes from some mythical 350kW charger which doesn’t yet really exist is kind of pointless though.

Where are these chargers? How much do they cost? How many of them are there and can I actually rely on them?

How does whatever network the Taycan can charge from compare on density and availability to superchargers?
 
Khane

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All valid concerns. This is kind of a chicken and egg thing when it comes to getting consumers to buy into electric vehicles. In order to make them mainstream and acceptable for the average consumer they need to have a big enough range and be easy and fast to recharge. In order for them to be easy and fast to recharge there needs to be enough of them on the road that recharge stations are at least close to as easy to find as gas stations, which is unlikely to happen if they aren't already mainstream.

Even if 80% in 20 minutes is a best case scenario using a charger most people don't/won't have access to the possibility is enough to at least get consumers to look at and consider the vehicle.
 
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Khane said:
All valid concerns. This is kind of a chicken and egg thing when it comes to getting consumers to buy into electric vehicles. In order to make them mainstream and acceptable for the average consumer they need to have a big enough range and be easy and fast to recharge. In order for them to be easy and fast to recharge there needs to be enough of them on the road that recharge stations are at least close to as easy to find as gas stations, which is unlikely to happen if they aren't already mainstream.

Even if 80% in 20 minutes is a best case scenario using a charger most people don't/won't have access to the possibility is enough to at least get consumers to look at and consider the vehicle.
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Sort of, but thats why Tesla spent a lot of money to build out superchargers that sat idle for years... because electric cars don’t work if you can’t drive them.

If you’re waiting for people to buy the cars first before you start building out the network... it’s going to be problematic.
 
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Frenzied Wombat

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Cad said:
what are the specs on the base model?
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Those are supposedly the base model specs. They just announced the "RS trim" but no specs. Typically for the gas lineup, RS designates an engine, suspension, and trim upgrade, but what it will mean for the E-tron I have no clue, as I can't imagine them making it much faster than the base model.

It supposedly has two batteries, one at each axle, and shares the same "platform" as the Taycan. Uses "800 volt" charging for the 80% in 20 minutes, whatever the fuck that means.

Range wouldn't matter much for me-- as long as it could get me to Austin/Houston on one charge I'd be ok with it. What I like is that it will be the first truly sporty, good looking, fully electrical vehicle out there-- the absence of which has turned me off to date.
 
Kirun

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How quickly are the batteries on these cars suspected to degrade? The more/faster you heat up a battery, the quicker its capacitors start dying out. I'd imagine these cars start having serious charge issues 3-5 years into their lifespan, depending on how often you're charging them.
 
sleevedraw

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Picasso3 said:
If only he had seen some retard yelling from his trash heap for 6 minutes about one of the smallest cars on the market not having room to conveniently work under the hood he wouldn't have bought it.

"GREAT GAS MILEAGE, REAL SMALL, CUTE, BUT WHY IS EVERYTHING SO CLOSE TOGETHER UNDER THE HOOD!?!??!?!?!?!?"
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"It has an 1.5 L automatic that barely gets out of its own way."

And why the fuck would you buy an automatic if you're getting a Mini?
 
Frenzied Wombat

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Frenzied Wombat said:
Those are supposedly the base model specs. They just announced the "RS trim" but no specs. Typically for the gas lineup, RS designates an engine, suspension, and trim upgrade, but what it will mean for the E-tron I have no clue, as I can't imagine them making it much faster than the base model.

It supposedly has two batteries, one at each axle, and shares the same "platform" as the Taycan. Uses "800 volt" charging for the 80% in 20 minutes, whatever the fuck that means.

Range wouldn't matter much for me-- as long as it could get me to Austin/Houston on one charge I'd be ok with it. What I like is that it will be the first truly sporty, good looking, fully electrical vehicle out there-- the absence of which has turned me off to date.
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I dunno but I shudder to think of the eco-hell involved in disposing or recycling all these batteries when they reach the end of their usable life. It's a literal smorgasbord of toxic heavy metals and acids. I wonder if anybody has done the math on the amount of energy/co2/pollution that is given off when these things need to be safely disposed of.
 
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Frenzied Wombat said:
Those are supposedly the base model specs. They just announced the "RS trim" but no specs. Typically for the gas lineup, RS designates an engine, suspension, and trim upgrade, but what it will mean for the E-tron I have no clue, as I can't imagine them making it much faster than the base model.

It supposedly has two batteries, one at each axle, and shares the same "platform" as the Taycan. Uses "800 volt" charging for the 80% in 20 minutes, whatever the fuck that means.

Range wouldn't matter much for me-- as long as it could get me to Austin/Houston on one charge I'd be ok with it. What I like is that it will be the first truly sporty, good looking, fully electrical vehicle out there-- the absence of which has turned me off to date.
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None of the Taycan models could go to Austin/Houston on 1 charge, so...
 
Frenzied Wombat

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Cad said:
None of the Taycan models could go to Austin/Houston on 1 charge, so...
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Well then fuck it. 250 miles or so should be the cut off for any pure electric vehicle. Taycan lists 200, E-tron 250. None of these "competitors" should even bother releasing cars unless they can be close in range to the Tesla. I'd be willing to to give up some range for the superior styling and fit/finish of German cars, but not willing to go below 250 miles or so to get it.
 
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Frenzied Wombat said:
I dunno but I shudder to think of the eco-hell involved in disposing or recycling all these batteries when they reach the end of their usable life. It's a literal smorgasbord of toxic heavy metals and acids. I wonder if anybody has done the math on the amount of energy/co2/pollution that is given off when these things need to be safely disposed of.
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I wonder if anybody has done the math on the amount of energy/co2/pollution that is given off when ICE vehicles need to be safely disposed of.
 
Frenzied Wombat

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I wonder if anybody has done the math on the amount of energy/co2/pollution that is given off when ICE vehicles need to be safely disposed of.
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Less than an electric vehicle that's for sure. There is no comparable component to a giant chemical battery in an ICE vehicle. ICE vehicles have their fluids drained, tires/trim removed, and are melted down, compacted, or stripped for parts. You have the same process for an electrical vehicle, plus the issue of dealing with the battery. Now I have no doubt that the NET impact on the environment over the life of the car is less with an electric vehicle when you factor in years worth of saved CO/CO2 emissions, but that doesn't change the sudden and very unique disposal requirements of a giant nickel cobalt lithium battery. That shit is far more toxic and in exists in far greater volumes than in any ICE vehicle.
 
Siliconemelons

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My 2012 Nissan Leaf had its battery replaced 8/12 bars in 2015 - with a new style "lizard" battery that combated hot climate better - in Nov 2018 I lost 1 capacity bar 11/12 - so it currently is doing VERY well for itself.

On the other side, you can find 2011 Tesla S's base models @ 90% life.... soo.... Teslas all have active battery heat management - Nissan has insulation and passive airflow... all factors in how well and long they live.

Also, a 80 mile range car running @ 50% battery is nigh useless while a 350 mile range car @ 50% is still damned useful.
 
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Frenzied Wombat said:
Less than an electric vehicle that's for sure. There is no comparable component to a giant chemical battery in an ICE vehicle. ICE vehicles have their fluids drained, tires/trim removed, and are melted down, compacted, or stripped for parts. You have the same process for an electrical vehicle, plus the issue of dealing with the battery. Now I have no doubt that the NET impact on the environment over the life of the car is less with an electric vehicle when you factor in years worth of saved CO/CO2 emissions, but that doesn't change the sudden and very unique disposal requirements of a giant nickel cobalt lithium battery. That shit is far more toxic and in exists in far greater volumes than in any ICE vehicle.
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auto.howstuffworks.com

Can Electric Car Batteries Be Recycled?

Happily, the answer is yes -- the batteries that power electric cars (and hybrids, for that matter) can be recycled. Learn more about recycling electric car batteries.
auto.howstuffworks.com auto.howstuffworks.com
 
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Xarpolis

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You just described capitalism.

The government is good at creating unknown technology because it has unlimited budget and the time table isn't counted in 3-month increments. You are allowed to project at how expensive a project will become (and not hit that number), and NEVER have a goal of making it profitable.

Once the government has developed something, then privately owned entities have a realistic goal to go off of. Like Space X. They can take the idea of what the govt did, then figure how expensive something will be and how long it'll take before something becomes profitable. Then... winning.
 
Xarpolis

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Cad said:
auto.howstuffworks.com

Can Electric Car Batteries Be Recycled?

Happily, the answer is yes -- the batteries that power electric cars (and hybrids, for that matter) can be recycled. Learn more about recycling electric car batteries.
auto.howstuffworks.com auto.howstuffworks.com
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Someone ran into my new minivan a few days ago, and is disputing that he hit me, even though my car was in park at the time of the accident. Good times.

Anyway, insurance sent someone out to do an appraisal on the damages, and that guy explained how Tesla style vehicles (almost any new vehicle) are making insurance companies broke. Those new $30k Tesla's consider the body panels as structural parts of the frame. And you aren't able to fix them due to all of the various sensors. Especially for driverless features. EVERYTHING must be replaced outright. A minor bump to a door typically runs insurance around $12k to replace all of the various sensors and door panels and such. Only specific companies are able to work on Telsa, and most shops refuse to. It's too expensive to keep parts in stock, so you HAVE to order everything from California or wherever. And they also don't accept any returns, so if you accidentally ordered the wrong part... sucks to be you. Wait another week or two for the correct part to be manufactured and shipped in. In the mean time, that car is now occupying your already tight parking lots or repair bays.

Tesla ruins everything.
 
Khane

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Yea Insurance companies are going broke...

I can't believe Tesla is "ruining" insurance companies
 
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BrutulTM

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If it really costs $12k to fix a fender bender that's a problem. Insurance companies aren't going to take it in the shorts for long. If they're losing money insuring Tesla's then the rates are going up and now it's a problem for the owners. Luckily it's mostly rich assholes driving Tesla's so far but if the fucking things aren't repairable that's a great reason not to buy one.
 
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