Crowfall
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Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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1: I hope it's not as drastic as that. My hope is that someone starting in a fresh campaign at the start will hit a softcap in a month that makes their character competitive with anyone. However they seem to like that logarithmic passive growth idea so we'll see. If a 2 year old character can obliterate a 2 month old character then I think they've missed the mark.
2: I think even in non-terminator campaigns we won't see people rolling up in fully decked out characters at the start. But we'll see. My preference would be to start with terminator rules and then see what players bitch about not having. I don't know if they're leaning toward letting players bring in one weapon at the start, or being able to bring in one backpack full of resources. We also don't know how difficult it will be to get BiS gear. If all it takes to get a BiS sword is someone creates a T8 swordsmith shop and then starts cranking out swords, then a BiS sword isn't a rare item. If you have to kill the Ender Dragon that spawns once per campaign and then forge your sword from his tooth, and that swod is 20% better than the T8 Swordsmith's weapons, then obviously being able to bring it into a campaign ruins the idea of a clean slate.
3. I'm in a bit of a bubble when it comes to social structures, but as a leader of one of the more powerful social structures I feel like a competent player can walk in at any time, prove themselves to be competent and be a part of our social structure.
Vitality
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New Jtodd updates on a few subjects - Most notably random exporting and 3 faction "kingmaker" thoughts:
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Balance Will Always Win.
It's funny, I had this same discussion with David Sirlin yesterday, but our concern was actually that the losing side would be the Kingmaker -- not balance, because they could throw the match to keep balance from winning.
I also have a concern that the most veteran players will choose Balance, because it sounds the most interesting and challenging.
We'll see!
(btw, most 3 faction games suffer from the same kingmaker problem, so I'm not sure it is unique to us.)
I will say: yes, this is an interesting and weird idea. My favorite thing about the Crowfall design is that it allows us to try crazy, oddball ideas like this.
If this one doesn't work, we'll change the Campaign rules and try something else. It sounds cool, so we're going to try it.
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Hey Artcraft, Can We Help Build Crowfall Now?
Yeah, Crowfall isn't really a building game in that sense. It's just not part of our vision. We're much more "survival mode" than "creative mode".
Landmark is doing that, so it's worth checking out, and I think Shroud of the Avatar is doing user generated content, as well?
Both good games. Very different focus.
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Why No Pledge Tiers With Extra Copies Of The Game Or Beta Codes?
A few notes/answers:
- it's actually impossible to adjust your existing rewards after you launch your KS. We can add new tiers, but you can't change old ones.
- the custom (maybe it's even a KS rule..? Tully would know for sure) in KS is to have each reward tier include all the previous rewards. That made it tricky, because if we added a bonus copy, suddenly we have a bunch of bonus copies going out that would increase the cost of upper tiers, to charge for extra copies of the game that people might or might not even want. Bleh.
- we could put an "add on" for another copy for $40, I guess? But the interface for add-one is kind of clunky, and hard to manage on the back end.
TLD;DR version:
we talked about it, and it didn't seem to fit nicely in the reward tier structure, so we didn't do it. We'll talk about it again when we get back to the office, though - thanks for asking!
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Not Comfortable With Random Embargo.
Yeah, I don't diagree. Random probably isn't the most elegant design.
This is a design point that we'll likely come back to later. I wouldn't get too hung up about it at this point... the key take-away from the FAQ is how the embargo works in general, not how the particular item(s) are selected to go from the embargo into your account bank.
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 11 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Skill List Por Favor
We don't have one.
Skill list will actually come fairly late in development. You have to know how all the systems work before you can figure out how and where to tie in the skills. Even the skills that we have shown (in the character creation screenshots) are highly subject to change.
We'll be releasing a skills advancement FAQ soon, that gives more information about the system itself (how skills work, how you train them, etc.)
Todd
ACE
It's funny, I had this same discussion with David Sirlin yesterday, but our concern was actually that the losing side would be the Kingmaker -- not balance, because they could throw the match to keep balance from winning.
I also have a concern that the most veteran players will choose Balance, because it sounds the most interesting and challenging.
We'll see!
(btw, most 3 faction games suffer from the same kingmaker problem, so I'm not sure it is unique to us.)
I will say: yes, this is an interesting and weird idea. My favorite thing about the Crowfall design is that it allows us to try crazy, oddball ideas like this.
If this one doesn't work, we'll change the Campaign rules and try something else. It sounds cool, so we're going to try it.
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Hey Artcraft, Can We Help Build Crowfall Now?
Yeah, Crowfall isn't really a building game in that sense. It's just not part of our vision. We're much more "survival mode" than "creative mode".
Landmark is doing that, so it's worth checking out, and I think Shroud of the Avatar is doing user generated content, as well?
Both good games. Very different focus.
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Why No Pledge Tiers With Extra Copies Of The Game Or Beta Codes?
A few notes/answers:
- it's actually impossible to adjust your existing rewards after you launch your KS. We can add new tiers, but you can't change old ones.
- the custom (maybe it's even a KS rule..? Tully would know for sure) in KS is to have each reward tier include all the previous rewards. That made it tricky, because if we added a bonus copy, suddenly we have a bunch of bonus copies going out that would increase the cost of upper tiers, to charge for extra copies of the game that people might or might not even want. Bleh.
- we could put an "add on" for another copy for $40, I guess? But the interface for add-one is kind of clunky, and hard to manage on the back end.
TLD;DR version:
we talked about it, and it didn't seem to fit nicely in the reward tier structure, so we didn't do it. We'll talk about it again when we get back to the office, though - thanks for asking!
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 10 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Not Comfortable With Random Embargo.
Yeah, I don't diagree. Random probably isn't the most elegant design.
This is a design point that we'll likely come back to later. I wouldn't get too hung up about it at this point... the key take-away from the FAQ is how the embargo works in general, not how the particular item(s) are selected to go from the embargo into your account bank.
Todd
ACE
by JToddColeman 11 hours ago in forum General Discussion in Skill List Por Favor
We don't have one.
Skill list will actually come fairly late in development. You have to know how all the systems work before you can figure out how and where to tie in the skills. Even the skills that we have shown (in the character creation screenshots) are highly subject to change.
We'll be releasing a skills advancement FAQ soon, that gives more information about the system itself (how skills work, how you train them, etc.)
Todd
ACE
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I think game devs recognize that FFA PvP comes with griefing of the highest magnitude. At that point it's not about trying to please a certain subset of the PvP community. It's about retaining customers. You can say 'well fuck em, let them leave', but that doesn't help from a business standpoint.
Vitality
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The problem with most devs on this topic is they pidgeon hole everyone into the lowest common denominator instead of creating a home for everyone with and without compromise.
The multi-ruleset server structure of Crowfall is it's saving grace when it comes to this.
I just hope they don't wimp out on the FFA stuff with peace time and overly protected property ala Archeage. No one wants that shit.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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It's an area where it's really difficult to achieve balance between having something people look forward to (they need to feel those skills make a difference), without being a massive handicap when you don't have them (because, unlike PVE, you don't have "levels" to segregate your players).
EVE barely manages it. You still feel like you're a scrub, but you can at least do something (even more since they abolished the whole learning skills tree that was useless for play, but mandatory for long-term growth). It's definitively an area where the path is lined with spike-filled pits on both sides. And unlike campaigns where, if a system doesn't work, you can retire it, that's a core system you can't replace, just paper over the cracks.
No. But at the beginning, you're supposed to have more or less equal opportunities. But then, it's again a problem of balance: either your spoils matter and that means old players have an intrinsic advantage in gear availability, or spoils don't matter much, and then the whole idea of being more or less forced to risk your spoils to vault them becomes useless because you don't care much about it, and you shoot one of your good PvP mechanics.
We're supposed to have rare components (which apparently can't be obtained in 3way campaign levels) for that. Again, it's an area that's difficult to balance: BIS can't be too rare, because you're going to lose them (unless you can rush to the vault just before the campaign ends). They can't be too common, or you shoot down the idea of trade in the EK ("I managed to get enough Mithril for my next 4 BPs, but I lack the Blacksteel to edge my swords!").
I don't think the majority of players come into those games with a ready-made global, trans-game structure. And it's always less fun to walk into an established year-old guild full of cliques than to walk into one that's just establishing itself. Not unfun, just less fun. IMHO.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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And that's the only reason I am vaguely interested in Crowfall, since I'm not a very PvP-oriented player at the base. But I can recognize the potential of structuring your game into campaigns with very differing rulesets, with the potential of having some stuff that's ok for you.
Until you flat out state you're going to launch with 1 out of 4 rulesets, the one that's the most likely to drive away non-hardcores, and make zero promises on the others, up to the point where you'd rather implement MOUNTS rather than promise to work out even the easy factional scenarios.
1) You may be right with this, but if they are smart there will be plenty of horizontal development as well. They also wrote up an example somewhere that was like if the max a power can get was 175, the additional damage flat lined closer to the peak. Where your skill did 50 damage from 1-20 (active skill progression) and at 100 which was like short term passive gain, you did 100 damage then anything above that was very long term gain but it only added an extra 25 damage or something. So there are power curves within each skill.
Also, it's not set in stone, but the amount of skills you can use in combat will be limited like Wildstar and GW2. They don't want 50 abilities on hotbars so while you may have more skills, you don't have access to all of them.
In the end, it should be a skill based, action based combat system. Hopefully they have active blocking and the rest like TERA. This should mean that a skilled player can beat a more advanced character based on gameplay and it's not all numbers based combat like DIKU games.
2) This will vary depending on the Campaign. You will have some campaigns that allow you to bring in a lot and some campaigns that will allow you to bring in very little. They said that they will vary this depending on what they see in game. It's one of my biggest confusions for the game. You get gear, you get awesome gear. Can you keep reusing it? Also remember, gear drops on kills. So that uber guy bringing in badass armor and weps, you get some bros together and kill him then you get some of his shit. The higher risk campaign the more shit he drops.
Gear is meant to be transitory. So expect to lose it. It's not like WOW where you spend months grinding gear. It's never safe. Just like EVE.
3) This is not a concern to me. Most guilds allow new players in all the time. Just look at EVE. Just look at PRX in many of the games they play. In PVP games you always need boots on the ground. Plus, since you can choose campaigns, you can simple avoid some of the bigger ones or more popular ones with the power guilds. If they do it right there should be campaigns that fall under what you would like to see. I don't think you can use conventional thinking with this one.
Your concerns are valid, but I think they know the pitfalls they have to design around. We'll see if they are good enough.
Also, it's not set in stone, but the amount of skills you can use in combat will be limited like Wildstar and GW2. They don't want 50 abilities on hotbars so while you may have more skills, you don't have access to all of them.
In the end, it should be a skill based, action based combat system. Hopefully they have active blocking and the rest like TERA. This should mean that a skilled player can beat a more advanced character based on gameplay and it's not all numbers based combat like DIKU games.
2) This will vary depending on the Campaign. You will have some campaigns that allow you to bring in a lot and some campaigns that will allow you to bring in very little. They said that they will vary this depending on what they see in game. It's one of my biggest confusions for the game. You get gear, you get awesome gear. Can you keep reusing it? Also remember, gear drops on kills. So that uber guy bringing in badass armor and weps, you get some bros together and kill him then you get some of his shit. The higher risk campaign the more shit he drops.
Gear is meant to be transitory. So expect to lose it. It's not like WOW where you spend months grinding gear. It's never safe. Just like EVE.
3) This is not a concern to me. Most guilds allow new players in all the time. Just look at EVE. Just look at PRX in many of the games they play. In PVP games you always need boots on the ground. Plus, since you can choose campaigns, you can simple avoid some of the bigger ones or more popular ones with the power guilds. If they do it right there should be campaigns that fall under what you would like to see. I don't think you can use conventional thinking with this one.
Your concerns are valid, but I think they know the pitfalls they have to design around. We'll see if they are good enough.
If you're really not a PVP oriented player this game really isn't for you. It's strictly a PVP game. You do everything to PVP and win. There will be no PVE or other activities for you to do unless you just want to be a crafter in a PVP setting where you rely on others to feed you materials.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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That's why having multiple servers with different rulesets is such a great idea. Sure, FFA PvP has massive griefing but it is the most popular for a decent subset of players. I really like the short term campaign ideas of this game.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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I think it's unlikely they'll have a time consuming enough crafting system it's unlikely that a lot of people will really come out the gate just crafting like that. Like in most games, the top crafters will have personally gotten the materials for themselves, participate in PvP and be supplied by a group of people.
To date the only MMO I'm aware of that has tried to have what I'd consider a true crafting system is a Tale in the Desert. Note that I never played SWG.
From what I understand, In Tale, their crafting system makes an effort to replicate RL crafting mechanisms to add gameplay to crafting. So if you're making a shovel you simulate hammer strikes to flatten and curve the shovel. The quality of that shovel is based on how closely it matches a given pattern. People who are good at it will create good shovels quickly, people who are bad will produce trash.
Contrast this with Fable3, where you have to play a DDR-like mini game to produce cakes. Or nearly every other 'crafting' system in other games where you watch progress bars.
This also seems somewhat analogous to building in MC, where noobs struggle and make a shitty pyramid house, and good builders can quickly drum up an inventive home with depth and complexity.
Frankly I've never understood the allure of any crafting system in any game. You find a recipe list, you get the materials, then you click a few items on a UI and watch progress bars.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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^This. Every single MMO comes out with the same hype about how their crafting will be special. In reality guilds funnel resources to their crafters and they don't need dick from anyone else. I would just copy minecraft and call it a day. It's the only crafting that I ever personally enjoyed.
Koster loves his crafting systems. I wouldn't be surprised if shit is different. If this is anything like EVE, you will have guild crafters for sure, but they will have to spend the time training their skills actively and passively to do anything decent. So they will be gimp in combat skills for a while in the beginning.
Bruman
Golden Squire
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Vanguard's crafting has been my favorite crafting system so far. Got a bit too grindy to progress up, though. But the process of making an item itself was great. The ability to make custom gear was well done, and felt really expansive, plus the ability to determine what level of quality you cared about. Then topping it off with it's whole own set of gear and tools and what-not. I haven't played SWG either, but VG was one where I could see someone taking that system, with a few tweaks, and it being a true "be just a crafter in our MMO" thing.
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
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Well that only helps the large guilds even more. Just have some alt accounts with nothing but crafters. Then again maybe that's what they want for money reasons. WoW makes a shit ton of money letting people box multiple accounts.
Vitality
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Most certainly, your point is even more reinforced by the fact that a crafting skill consumes one of the 3 disciplines you can choose for your character. So you'd have to take blacksmithing instead of archery or bounty hunting.
It's impossible to design a game around keeping guilds down and single players on par. If you want to go it alone you either have to have a shit load of time, money and learn to make friends. Otherwise, bigger guilds will have more access to shit.