Fair enough, and thank you for an honest answer. I am definitely a fan of challenge and can appreciate rewarding gameplay. I am currently 4 hours into giving it another chance -- I just can't help but feel like maybe if I continue to plow through it this time an "Oh shit, this is amazing!" moment will be right around the corner. I'm determined to beat it as it's the last game in my back catalog atm, so I hope that's the case.
Dark Souls 2
- Thread starter Malt_sl
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There are a ton of great things about these games, combat is well thought out, pretty much every weapon handles differently. Excellent character and level design. When you play it really draws you into the whole mythos of it, everything is mysterious and interesting and there are TONS and TONS of hidden things which personally I would never have seen or found were it not for some very dedicated players with YouTube accounts.
The game has nothing in the way of hints or directions at any point and that's what makes all the hidden stuff that much more awesome, it would still be a great game without some of that stuff but it's the icing on the cake really.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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It's deeper than just being hard and giving no information to the player. The world is very beautiful and sad
and a real treat to explore. There is something rewarding about exploring areas that are difficult and dangerous to traverse, but even on its own the zones in the game are spectacular.
Beyond that the challenging nature of the game is built upon a very tightly tuned combat system and well thought out encounters. When you have an open RPG like Dark Souls with a varied combat system and dozens of unique encounters it can be treacherous to make them difficult for a wide variety of players. The line between challenging and 'total bullshit' is very thin and blurry. And because the player can use so many different weapons, spells and armor you have to be very careful to not make one general approach impossible to use against a boss. We've all played games where there is a stupidly hard difficulty setting and found it to be boring and tedious. Dark Souls avoids that very well and the result is a world-class RPG.
and a real treat to explore. There is something rewarding about exploring areas that are difficult and dangerous to traverse, but even on its own the zones in the game are spectacular.
Beyond that the challenging nature of the game is built upon a very tightly tuned combat system and well thought out encounters. When you have an open RPG like Dark Souls with a varied combat system and dozens of unique encounters it can be treacherous to make them difficult for a wide variety of players. The line between challenging and 'total bullshit' is very thin and blurry. And because the player can use so many different weapons, spells and armor you have to be very careful to not make one general approach impossible to use against a boss. We've all played games where there is a stupidly hard difficulty setting and found it to be boring and tedious. Dark Souls avoids that very well and the result is a world-class RPG.
Noodleface
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Angelwatch
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Sen's Fortress is the first really difficult area of the game. After you open it up the game takes a pretty big jump up in difficulty.
Personally I liked Demons Souls better myself. Dark Souls was a bit deeper (and a lot larger) but I felt that Dark Souls was "cheap" whereas in Demons Souls I felt the challenge was just right. For example, I think the run up through the Anor Londo archers was "cheap." It was artificially made difficult even if you knew exactly what to do and did everything right, it was still possible to die and be forced to do the run again. In Demons Souls, every time I died I could look back and say "this is why I died and this is what I need to do better to avoid that same death." Just my opinion though.
Personally I liked Demons Souls better myself. Dark Souls was a bit deeper (and a lot larger) but I felt that Dark Souls was "cheap" whereas in Demons Souls I felt the challenge was just right. For example, I think the run up through the Anor Londo archers was "cheap." It was artificially made difficult even if you knew exactly what to do and did everything right, it was still possible to die and be forced to do the run again. In Demons Souls, every time I died I could look back and say "this is why I died and this is what I need to do better to avoid that same death." Just my opinion though.
Dandain
Trakanon Raider
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I don't know what you mean, have you ever played the game a second time? I don't think any death in darksouls is cheap, once you understand the game systems. Learning the areas and making mistakes is part of learning the game - that's the fun. Which deaths in Dark souls to you were unavoidable by player skill/knowledge/ability?
Noodleface
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I must've lucked out on Capra demon. I had no idea what I was in for and had like negative 3 seconds to go OH FUCK and ran for my life to the top. The dogs followed me and since I was using an upgraded gargoyle halberd or whatever I was able to kill both in one swing. I then put on my drake sword and kept jumping onto the demon. I honestly felt like it was one of those moments where I completely lucked out and could never repeat again. The great thing about dark souls was when I beat the demon I shot out of my seat and cheered, not many games make you feel that way. Conversely the gargoyles really fucked me up and I won with a sliver of health left after my 20th or so try.
I got lucky with Capra in that I inadvertently figured out how to cheese him by falling off the archway and mashing the shit out of my controller while squealing like a girl.
Fuck those archers on NG+, though. Most things in Dark Souls can be analyzed by staying back and just patiently waiting to see what kind of attacks a mob is going to bring to bear. If you die it's because you're impatient or reckless (or both). The archers... not so much. You have the one path and other than minor deviations in what you do after you reach the top, it feels like it's down to luck whether you get pegged in the back and staggered. I'm sure it's not luck but those archers can still go fuck themselves.
Otherwise, I agree that Dark Souls' difficulty is a matter of familiarity. Every step of the way is difficult until you sort out how to approach what's in front of you, then the light goes on and you understand it's not so hard after all. Then you find shortcuts, even more efficient ways to kill stuff, gear upgrades, which mobs you can skip altogether and so on, and it becomes less about difficulty and more about how you want to enjoy the game as you smash your way through it.
That said, I can appreciate the fact some folks never get over that initial hump where Dark Souls is utterly indifferent to their presence and does not give a shit if they wander into the Catacombs or New Londo Ruins and die horribly. I'd just suggest that if you let it get its hooks into you there are few games more rewarding.
Fuck those archers on NG+, though. Most things in Dark Souls can be analyzed by staying back and just patiently waiting to see what kind of attacks a mob is going to bring to bear. If you die it's because you're impatient or reckless (or both). The archers... not so much. You have the one path and other than minor deviations in what you do after you reach the top, it feels like it's down to luck whether you get pegged in the back and staggered. I'm sure it's not luck but those archers can still go fuck themselves.
Otherwise, I agree that Dark Souls' difficulty is a matter of familiarity. Every step of the way is difficult until you sort out how to approach what's in front of you, then the light goes on and you understand it's not so hard after all. Then you find shortcuts, even more efficient ways to kill stuff, gear upgrades, which mobs you can skip altogether and so on, and it becomes less about difficulty and more about how you want to enjoy the game as you smash your way through it.
That said, I can appreciate the fact some folks never get over that initial hump where Dark Souls is utterly indifferent to their presence and does not give a shit if they wander into the Catacombs or New Londo Ruins and die horribly. I'd just suggest that if you let it get its hooks into you there are few games more rewarding.
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Penance
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I'm pretty sure the archers shot at a fixed rate which makes it easy. Well no fuck that. It's still top three hardest things in the game. After running through this game a hundred times you just sense timings though. You start having to do stupid builds like only fist weapons.
Noodleface
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I always cheesed them as well.I pussied out on the archers after my first playthrough and just used poison arrows on other playthroughs lol
Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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I always just plink those guys down with my bow. A zillion times. Because I can't fucking beat O&S for the life of me.
They may have nerfed poison arrows. I told a friend of mine about the archer cheese and he said his poison arrows weren't doing any damage over time.