Dark Souls 2

The rolls don't have the same invincibility frames that they used to. That's probably what's off for you.

Also, pumping up Agility, the speed stat, affects things quite a bit.

Really fucking impressed, coming from immediately playing dark souls then demon souls, the graphical progression in the game is pretty amazing. I started as the temple knight then swapped to rogue/knight gear for the poise... Did a fair amount of summoning other players to fight them, did a fair amount of coop too, I hope the online component in retail works better than it did in this test, 80% of the summons failed, which is about what I got in dark souls 1. Stat scaling seemed really off too, 15 levels in health only to go from 800 to 950ish?

Anyways I really enjoyed the chariot boss, yes it's just a gimmick fight, but I liked the change I pace from every other DS boss. Beat it 2 minutes before the server went down.

Absolutely loved the changes. The game is gorgeous and everything seems to run so much more responsively. Very lively and interactive. The stat system is perfect and is exactly what it should have been in DS1, and will allow build making more fun and a lot of other builds much more viable and respectable. The agility change to rolling and movement is excellent.

Environment changes are fantastic - for example, one of my favorite moments was walking into a blacked out chapel with multiple undead in the chapel attacking me/hiding somewhere I couldn't see. Died a couple of times trying to find and kill them all blind until I hugged the wall on the left and broke open the wood covering up the windows of the chapel and bam - lit the place up & the rest was cake. It was strategic while remaining completely off the rails. The world just seems to be more interactive. A lot of things I went up to and pressed 'X' on and didn't expect shit from, actually responded and ended up doing something. It was awesome. Character dialogue is still creepy and the atmosphere is still dark and gloomy while remaining stunningly beautiful.

I immediately began as the dual wielding class and love it. They did it perfectly. I am huge on parry/riposte so it was still very hard to get used to, but I landed nearly 70% of them. The timing is just much different, and don't quote me on this, but I believe the weapon you are using might change the animation. It's not quite the same insta-kill parry move in DS1, though. Most of the parries were just deflections that left the enemy stunned, and then it was up to you how you chose to finish the enemy off. Backstabbing is just as easy to pull off in DS2, at least it was for me, but the animations are way different - and you can take damage while performing a backstab. That got me killed several times since I'm used to using backstab as a crutch in a tight spot to save some health. I like the challenge though, and with the finesse changes it felt like a *real* rogue character. I was impressed and didn't even want to try sorcery or anything else, I spent the entire test with it.

I'm not sure if it was just me or what, but I felt like I had WAY more endurance than I should have as a starting character. I was killing things in one chain of attacks, which is nice and all, but it was definitely a far cry from what the previous games made you endure in the beginning. I actually liked it though, seeing as though there were more challenging enemies available almost immediately after the first couple of minutes into progression.

Let's get down to some changes. You can now hold 3 items in each hand - super badass change and really means a lot for the dual wield class. Now I can have my 4 swords, or 3 swords & 1 shield, plus a bow without having to switch all that shit out constantly.

The interface took some getting used to, but is nice overall and will work absolutely just fine. I like it better than DS1, scrolling through every single goddamn item in the previous games was such a fucking bitch. This is put in a much nicer format with multiple interface options. You also now have the option to have the HUD display as always on/off, or when being used.

You can use L3 instead of 'O' to jump now. Minor change, but I know some people prefer it that way. I'm personally so used to 'O', I don't think I could ever change. Not at the same time though, you have to map the controller to either 'O' or L3. You have the ability to turn 'gore/blood' on or off. There is a new function in regards to auto target - you can turn it to toggle mode, free swing mode or a newly added mode that is basically free aim that will auto point you in the direction of your closest enemy. Interesting, but I don't believe I'll ever use it.

When you die, it's like being cursed in Dark Souls 1. You lose a portion of your overall health each time you die, stopping at 50% health.You can reverse this effect and regain your full HP bar by reversing hollow and going back into human form with an item called human effigy - no more humanity and reversing at a bonfire. You can use the item anywhere, anytime from what I've seen. (Possible exceptions to follow, obviously since we are in beta.)

-Stat Changes
Basically STR/DEX are still there, however DEX now raises bleeding and poison damage. VIG (Vigor) is strictly the HP stat, nothing special there. END (endurance) raises stamina as usual, however it no longer raises your equipment load. There is an entirely new stat called VIT (vitality) specifically for increasing your gear load. Also, when you run out of stamina now you are temporarily debilitated and are left open to 'finishing moves' from other players. I am not sure I have seen an NPC use a finishing move on a player out of stamina yet, however. Needs confirmation. ATT (attunement) still increases spell slots but also increases spell casting speed. RES (resistance) now affects PHYSICAL DAMAGE/defense as well as bleeding and poison resists so it does seem to be actually useful this time around. How much so remains to be seen, especially in light of the other awesome stat changes...it could essentially be deemed not worth it all over again. Need more time to get a higher SL build to figure this out. AGI (agility) is the new stat that affects how fast you move, how fast you roll/sprint/evade, disable traps (from chests, etc.) as well as how fast you are able to block & parry. Huge game changer right here, I noticed a huge difference with this stat playing a role in my character's effectiveness. INT (intelligence) affects BOTH pyromancy & sorcery and also raises magic defense. FTH (faith) is the same, strictly used for casting miracles, occult, and lightning spells and using faith gear - no new changes apparently.

I couldn't summon a single person and never got summoned once, though. I don't know if it was shitty luck on my satelitte connection (it works fine for Dark Souls 1) or if it was the server, so whatever. Didn't get any PvP or co-op interaction, sadly.

Overall, this game is looking pretty damn sharp.


So, two things I have for you guys -

Did endurance seem a little strange to you guys? I also don't know how I feel about creating an entirely new stat just for equipment load, as well. Ehhh.

Did the stat:soul - progression:cost rate seem way off to anyone else? I am not sure exactly how to explain it, because I forgot what I specifically was looking at last night in terms of it but the ratio seems much, much different from DS1.

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double post

Can I get a confirm/deny you can take screenshots in Dark Souls PS3 version?

It's PS+Start right? I don't know if I'm fucking it up or if it's the game and I can't test it on another game right now for other reasons.

Other than a handful of games (GT5, Dragon's Dogma, etc.) that have it implemented internally, there's no way to take a screenshot. PS+Start is a Vita thing, not PS3.

Kind of curious what you found to like about dual wield in Dark Souls 2. It was the first thing I tried too, and it seemed nearly the same as Dark Souls. Which is to say it was utter shit compared to how it was designed in Demon's Souls.

Vorph_sl said:

Other than a handful of games (GT5, Dragon's Dogma, etc.) that have it implemented internally, there's no way to take a screenshot. PS+Start is a Vita thing, not PS3.

Kind of curious what you found to like about dual wield in Dark Souls 2. It was the first thing I tried too, and it seemed nearly the same as Dark Souls. Which is to say it was utter shit compared to how it was designed in Demon's Souls.

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Thanks for the screenshot info.

Vorph, what I loved about the dual wield class wasn't so much the core of it as a foundation (especially the way character development works in the Souls' series) but rather the stat changes, gear changes and interface for item swapping that allowed dual wielding to be much more mechanically functional and efficient. Also, the changes to backstabbing and parry/riposte were also a huge plus for me. The fact that I can increase my speed in both basic movement, evasion & parrying is huge for a real dual wielding based build in order to make it a thoroughly viable option.

The issues I'm foreseeing right now in terms of building are going to be balancing health, endurance, vitality (equipment load), agility AND resistance along with a natural need for dexterity if I want to use a bleed/poison build, otherwise strength would be the other factor to consider for pure physical attack damage. Stat building seems to be spread across a much more broad spectrum than ever before, however I look forward to the options and challenge of creating an optimal dual wielding character. It's going to be a lot of trial by fire, but it's a new game and that's part of what makes it fun. These stat changes essentially change the role of building your character for every kind of class as far as I can see, but I don't see any other builds with more of a need for finesse and dexterity as extra requirements than the dual wielding class does - making it a complicated decision making process. I'm also going to have to see what kind of bleeding/poison weapons even exist yet to see if it's worth it, so obviously that will not be my first choice on my initial build.

What I was most surprised by when playing the Network test was the graphics. I couldn't believe how much they improved on them. I was thinking about getting the PC version but I'm not sure if my ancient rig(which can handle all of PS3/Xbox 360 era games at high) can handle this one. This game has a major boost. I might have to stick with my PS3 pre-order. I'll know more when DS2 PC specs come out. I really want to retire my PS3 but this may prevent it. I was surprised at those health stones though as it leaves a huge opening to the duping problem Demons Souls has which can trivialize the game. Flasks solved that problem.

I pray the Demons Soul's 2 PS4 exclusive comes true too. I just want more of this entire series from From Software.

Araxen_sl said:

What I was most surprised by when playing the Network test was the graphics. I couldn't believe how much they improved on them. I was thinking about getting the PC version but I'm not sure if my ancient rig(which can handle all of PS3/Xbox 360 era games at high) can handle this one. This game has a major boost. I might have to stick with my PS3 pre-order. I'll know more when DS2 PC specs come out. I really want to retire my PS3 but this may prevent it. I was surprised at those health stones though as it leaves a huge opening to the duping problem Demons Souls has which can trivialize the game. Flasks solved that problem.

I pray the Demons Soul's 2 PS4 exclusive comes true too. I just want more of this entire series from From Software.

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Just an fyi, Dark Souls has been hacked now as well and has tons of people running around with duped infinite humanity/stamina grass/etc.

Seems to be an inevitable part of the game at one point or another - people figure out some crazy ass shit.

eXarc_sl said:

Thanks for the screenshot info.

Vorph, what I loved about the dual wield class wasn't so much the core of it as a foundation (especially the way character development works in the Souls' series) but rather the stat changes, gear changes and interface for item swapping that allowed dual wielding to be much more mechanically functional and efficient. Also, the changes to backstabbing and parry/riposte were also a huge plus for me. The fact that I can increase my speed in both basic movement, evasion & parrying is huge for a real dual wielding based build in order to make it a thoroughly viable option.

The issues I'm foreseeing right now in terms of building are going to be balancing health, endurance, vitality (equipment load), agility AND resistance along with a natural need for dexterity if I want to use a bleed/poison build, otherwise strength would be the other factor to consider for pure physical attack damage. Stat building seems to be spread across a much more broad spectrum than ever before, however I look forward to the options and challenge of creating an optimal dual wielding character. It's going to be a lot of trial by fire, but it's a new game and that's part of what makes it fun. These stat changes essentially change the role of building your character for every kind of class as far as I can see, but I don't see any other builds with more of a need for finesse and dexterity as extra requirements than the dual wielding class does - making it a complicated decision making process. I'm also going to have to see what kind of bleeding/poison weapons even exist yet to see if it's worth it, so obviously that will not be my first choice on my initial build.

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Demon's Souls gave you many advantages for dual wielding, plus the game itself never seemed to me that it was designed around hiding behind a shield.

Dark Souls took away the dual wield combos, gimped parrying for offhand curved swords (they have the fastest parry animation but also the smallest parry window, which is kind of a wash in PVE but it reduces PVP to blind luck). Parrying really seemed like a gimmick anyway. Yes, you could do it, but it was strictly inferior to hiding behind a shield--doubly so before the eagle nerf--and it was really only for people who wanted an additional challenge to the game. The silver knights everyone hates and Gwyn were the only two places where being good at parry actually mattered. And you were much better off using a shield in both of those examples. I never used a shield in Demon's Souls unless it was permanently on my back, but in Dark Souls I always felt like not using a shield was just being dumb.

Dark Souls 2 still has no dual wield combos as far as I could tell, and the new push (R1+forward) is slow and leaves you wide open during the animation. Not sure about the parry stuff since I didn't get to try it with a curved sword. New backstab has far too long an animation to not be fully i-framed. Don't see the point of that at all, it's always the pvp fags who cry about backstab, and since most pvp is 1 on 1 it's not like being open to attack during the animation will matter.

Vorph_sl said:

Demon's Souls gave you many advantages for dual wielding, plus the game itself never seemed to me that it was designed around hiding behind a shield.

Dark Souls took away the dual wield combos, gimped parrying for offhand curved swords (they have the fastest parry animation but also the smallest parry window, which is kind of a wash in PVE but it reduces PVP to blind luck). Parrying really seemed like a gimmick anyway. Yes, you could do it, but it was strictly inferior to hiding behind a shield--doubly so before the eagle nerf--and it was really only for people who wanted an additional challenge to the game. The silver knights everyone hates and Gwyn were the only two places where being good at parry actually mattered. And you were much better off using a shield in both of those examples. I never used a shield in Demon's Souls unless it was permanently on my back, but in Dark Souls I always felt like not using a shield was just being dumb.

Dark Souls 2 still has no dual wield combos as far as I could tell, and the new push (R1+forward) is slow and leaves you wide open during the animation. Not sure about the parry stuff since I didn't get to try it with a curved sword. New backstab has far too long an animation to not be fully i-framed. Don't see the point of that at all, it's always the pvp fags who cry about backstab, and since most pvp is 1 on 1 it's not like being open to attack during the animation will matter.

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Demon's Souls did have better dual wield play in a certain sense, I agree. The design has changed however, so...

Dark Souls 2 has a lot to be explored before anyone can make any final statements on the validity and effectiveness of dual wielding, unfortunately. For now though, speculating and from what beta has offered, I disagree to an extent. First of all, you can PVP among NPCs, so backstabbing leaving you vulnerable to an NPC attack is an option and something to be considered. Secondly, I found the new backstab animation to be much more fluid and not slower at all. I'm not sure if this is perspective or a real numbers thing. We'd have to hammer that out. I do agree the new push is sloppy as fuck, but perhaps there are weapons/combinations that will change it. As for dual wielding combos, they definitely exist in the form of being smart with your weapon choices (heavy handed right hand smash with a left hand parry/rapier and a right hand short sword or spear for main attacking is a 'dual wield combo' in my mind.). If you're speaking about strictly movements, then I would say that it is different from Dark Souls, still. The agility stat will affect the speed of parrying and that alone is huge. I noticed a new streak in swing combos when dual wielding a sword in left hand and a heavy sword in my right, with the left sword having the ability to parry. I think we will have to wait and see so we can get to use all of the items and exhaust all possibilities before this discussion can have any possible conclusive merit.

Sorry to necro this thread a bit. Last year I got Dark Souls and was posting in this thread about how shitty I was. I basically stopped playing after the Taurus Demon because I couldn't handle the game. A few days ago I watched a 1 hr 30 min speed run by Kotti and it inspired me to play this game. Now, I did see a lot of the games, and got a few secrets, but I feel like the speed run didn't really prepare me much since most of his techniques were completely overpowering every area and boss (high pyromancy).

So I started a new game this week. Got up to the Taurus Demon pretty quickly but basically after that I was getting my shit pushed in. Grabbed the drake sword but still had a lot of trouble getting up to the Parish and beyond. Ended up killing some of the black knights and havel after I figured out how to parry and dodge pretty good (still terrible at parrying). After that point I was pretty well-levelled and started tearing ass through the game. I actually killed the Capra Demon on my first shot, something I feel pretty proud about (the speed run he straight tanked him wth stone armor - I actually just jumped on his head a few times). I got through Blight Town fairly easily and killed Quelagg on my second attempt. I will admit that I saw the trick on Ceaseless Discharge and took him out as well.

Sen's fortress just unlocked and that's where I am now, roughly 6 hours into the game. I feel like the speedrun if anything showed me a few shortcuts and the general path to take, but I honestly can't remember what he did now so I'm just winging it. I'm wondering if I should go to Darkroot first and grab the Stone Armor before proceeding (and kill Sif) or what.

Anyways, this game is incredibly awesome and I am so pumped for DS2. I also asked for Demon's Souls for Christmas, so hoping I get it. I also bought DS for PC for my brother for christmas since he's telling me he doesn't think it's as hard as people say, I really want to watch him do the Undead Asylum.

Didn't have PS+ over the summer? DS was PS+!

And I find stone armor to be shit personally, Sif is easy but I don't bother with that region until I'm gearing up for Kings when his ring becomes vital.

You want to be fast at dodging for An or Londo - the armor behind the Discharge was my favorite for most of the game. Offers so much maneuverability for its protection.

I have given both this game and Demon Souls a shot multiple times. What am I missing? Aside from the challenge I just don't understand why everyone likes these games. Not trolling, I just want an honest assessment as I feel like they are mediocre at best.

The games just feel like old-school gaming at its best. Demon Souls gave me the same feeling of wonderment that I got as a kid the first time I played something like Metroid or Castlevania. Just a hardcore game that you are basically tossed into with absolutely no direction and you are forced to just start moving and explore.

Its a refreshing style in this day and age of hours-long game tutorials and general hand-holding.

Indeed Joe. It brings me right back to Ultima III playing my first computer game (pirated with no manual at that).

To answer your question I will tell a small story. When I finally graduated I wanted to finish my backlog, so I loaded up Ni No Kuni and beat the game in two days. Basically NNK holds your hand the entire fucking game, going as far as to tell you what spell to cast at certain areas EVERY FUCKING TIME EVEN IF YOU ALREADY DID THE SAME THING BEFORE IN ANOTHER SPOT. The story and combat were great, but a retard could beat it. Now you load up Dark Souls and the first area you're in the Asylum Demon just starts putting its giant club up your ass immediately. The game is unforgiving and awesome, brutally punishing you if you suck and rewarding you if you are good - and sure, there are bullshit moments and sometimes the hit boxes don't work right, but its pretty incredible. Also, the game gives you a general idea of where to go, but not much beyond that, and the story is basically picked up through minor cutscenes and item descriptions. It reminds me of old games where they brutalized you.

Also, did I hear they made that King's Field or whatever PSX game was? I remember that game being incredibly difficult, and if they made it that's awesome.