Control
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Tbf, I do sometimes envy people who are able to go through life so utterly untethered to reality. (I don't exactly envy talking to them though.)
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Daybreak Sues The Heroes Journey EQ EMU Server Devs
- Thread starter Araxen
- Start date
Juvarisx
Florida
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WoW had its sub number leaked last May and it was 7.25 million. That was pre expansion so it would have gone up again then gone down. Thats 70% of peak. Daybreak would die for 70% of peak.
This world salad doesn't really mean anything. Congrats to THJ guys for creating somehting great. It was so great that it pulled people away from Daybreak and probably would have gotten a C&D regardless but they were morons and tried to profit on somehting they didnt own. So now they will probably owe Daybreak money. Imagine being that dumb.
Thats it.
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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You're delusional. They don't owe you or any of the players shit. You keep crying about legacy and stewardship like they inherited some sacred artifact and not a fucking video game. Not only that, but if we're being honest, a pretty meaningless video game. Yes, it holds a very special place for a lot of us, but overall it was a mediocre game that very few people played.
If you were being honest, the "legacy" of EverQuest should've been that it shut down 15 years ago and not chugged along well past its expiration.
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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People like Old Man Potter are way too invested and thinks that can be translated into some kind of real-world effect.
Drakurii
Aten Ha Ra Slayer
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moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
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This is a thread specifically about a copyright infringement lawsuit and he's talking about morals and righteousness and trying to call me out for talking about copyright and the legalities of it. I mean, I am playing THJ right now, and love the server, but I understand how they fucked it up by being loud and getting paid for it. Hope for the best, but prepare for the (much more likely) worst.
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imready2go
WTF is a Raider?
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No, you all have it wrong. At it's peak this 25 year-old game affected at least 1/10,000 of 1% of the world's population. IT'S A FUCKING CULTURAL ICON. Potter is probably building a huge statue in the game's honor as we speak. All hail the world's only true god: EQ. Now say 10 "Hail Kronos" and leave your offering in the donation plate.
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Juvarisx
Florida
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I mean all your questions are answered by George Lucas.
Go take a gander at the current Blu Ray for Star Wars 4-6. Changes galore and only George or Fox or Lucasfilm could profit from the film.He had the right to do it on material from the 70's, till he sold it to Disney. Then Disney could change shit (the color corrected blu rays for example) or ask George if he wanted to do anything else, but it would be up to them.
Had a fan project that cut all the new shit out like the one that exists chose to sell copies they would get ass reamed. Could Disney still do a C&D to the creators of the de-specialized version? Sure, they could also have hosts forcibly take it down. However the people that would seek that out are not doing so to violate copyright but to relive their youth and likely have the trilogy purchased anyways. Also they are not "easy" to find in the traditional sense so customers cant just take Star Wars A New Hope that they dont own and run it through the "de-specialization" installer and click play. Disney isnt really losing money nor are the creators making money to the de-specialized version and it would be a PR hit for really no reason at all. Now if those versions cause the sales of the OG trilogy to drop in a measurable way, they would sue them to oblivion.
Your real question is real retarded. They crossed it when they started a private server. They flew past the speed limit when they professionally advertised it and built up a huge player base. They got maxx GTA stars when they tried to profit off of it.
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it sounds like your argument is one of monetary loss?
I hope to fuck that that is what daybreak argues so that we get to see the real numbers, because I guarantee you daybreak didnt' lose a single penny because of THJ.
THJ brought in former players who can't or won't play eq live, all financial failures of daybreak and their latest TLP is solely their own.
I hope to fuck that that is what daybreak argues so that we get to see the real numbers, because I guarantee you daybreak didnt' lose a single penny because of THJ.
THJ brought in former players who can't or won't play eq live, all financial failures of daybreak and their latest TLP is solely their own.
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Juvarisx
Florida
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Well its what they are arguing ontop of copyright.
Its irrelevant what players THJ brought in, it wasn't their product to do it with.
Lets say 1/4 of the 20k players or whatever it was regularly played TLP's but all of them chose not to cause of THJ. Regardless on Fangbreakers status or Teek's progression thats a huge loss to Daybreak. Maybe 1/2 of those would have spent $15 to sub for a month or more for longer, who knows! Even if you argue that the gameplay is significantly different outside of 1st/3rd person MMORPG combat, its irrelevant because the assets, zones, animations, art, ingame lore, etc that was created and copyrighted is still there and is protected under current laws.
Its why they had shit like Rallos Zek and Lady Vox in the court doc's. They created them or atleast have the rights to them and THJ tried to profit off of them.
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I understand that they are pretty much guranteed to win on copyright infringement that isn't really up for debate.
however you fundamentally misunderstand THJ if you think 1/4 of them were regular TLP players.
If Daybreak was a company that made skateboards, and a bunch of people who used to skate but can't any more because they broke their spines and are now in wheel chairs, if a couple of those guys used daybreak likeness and copyrighted material to make skateboard looking wheelchairs, then daybreak could totally sue for copyright.
What they can't do, is argue that a single one of those wheelchair users stopped buying their skateboards because those 2 guys offered an alternative
however you fundamentally misunderstand THJ if you think 1/4 of them were regular TLP players.
If Daybreak was a company that made skateboards, and a bunch of people who used to skate but can't any more because they broke their spines and are now in wheel chairs, if a couple of those guys used daybreak likeness and copyrighted material to make skateboard looking wheelchairs, then daybreak could totally sue for copyright.
What they can't do, is argue that a single one of those wheelchair users stopped buying their skateboards because those 2 guys offered an alternative
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DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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I think the number of players not playing real EQ (and/or spending less krono) because of THJ is non-zero, but I have no idea how DBG could possibly hope to prove any amount of lost players, especially if they're forced to give hard numbers for prior TLP releases and the like. Their prior bomb TLP releases should reflect that quality of TLP matters and fluctuates.
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beyond anecdotal evidence I doubt very much that they've lost any money at all to THJ, certainly not in any amount that could be proven. In fact it would be easier to argue the opposite, that bringing in tens of thousands of former eq players and giving them an accessible, solo version of the game, may have reignited nostalgia enough for a few of them to actually resub to EQ.
Daybreak had between 10-20k subscriptions as of that 2023 video (was hard to tell on the bar graph) but lets, for shits and giggles, say it was 20k subs 2 years ago, and i'd wager they attrition out 10% per year, more on years with shit TLPs like this years, but lets say 20% for the 2 years. so lets say it's now 16k subscriptions. with the average player maintaining between 3 and 6 subscriptions, lets say 4, you really are only dealing with about 4k players remaining. EQ has zero new players this is a terminally deteriorating player base, and it appeals to less and less people each year as nostalgia wears thin and the absolute shit mismanagement upsets players. also, their players are starting to age out of gaming and/or life itself.
THJ realized that there was actually a million former EQ players who got older, had families, have jobs, etc, most if not all of which, swapped to WoW when it released (or some other MMO) and realized that their time was too valuable to not be able to play the game in any meaningful fashion unless grouped, that soloing was the way of the future and forced grouping is a young man's game.
THJ has 20k+ and growing playerbase pulling from former eq players who can't or won't play Daybreaks EQ. which is why thinking "1/4 of THJs players came from TLPs" is ridiculous. 1/4 of THJs players is more players than Daybreak even has, if that were the case then they would of shut down the servers cus they had 0 players remaining.
There is little to no cross over between the 2 player bases for the same reason that daybreak would never offer a server like this, and it's the same reason that they don't enforce any truebox rules.
Daybreak is milking the handful of subscribers they have remaining for 100+ a month in subscription fees plus whatever in krono because EQ is fundamentally a group required game, but the playerbase has aged to the point that that is no longer a viable playstyle model, which forces them to multibox and maintain multiple subs to play.
They still exist by promising true box alternate ruleset TLPs to bring in the old school nostalgia fans but cater exclusively to the loner 6 boxer farming content and selling shit for krono.
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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They’re on the P99 forums and the Monsters and Memories discord
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Are you really comparing monthly subscriptions numbers to total players that ever gave thj a shot over the course of 7 months on a ftp model?
its an incredibly developed ruleset, so I'm not denying that but there is definitely playerbase overlap. Why would active eq players not give a quality product that has no cost barrier a run?The server's average concurrent user count is like 1800-2000(with online traders and no afk disconnect), which is great for an emu, but also puts it on par with any of the high pop dbg servers.
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Regardless of the relative 'morals' of the lawsuit's merits, the THJ guys are likely fucked because they made any amount of money. That's going to get them boned basically no matter what any other part of discovery finds out, I would imagine.
The interesting thing that is going to be released is whatever player/subscription numbers come out to try and show that it caused a loss to Daybreak. I think what's going to be seen is that the TLPs don't spike the income nearly as much people here seem to think, and that a tremendous amount of people are just always subbed to EQ. For the people that are as invested in the game as I imagine folks like Potter are, they likely have multiple lifetime sub accounts purchased. I'm curious if Daybreak actually makes -any- money from EQ outside of expansions and cash shop purchases period these days... They would just have to show that while their constant sub subscription didn't change, because less people got involved, less people bought cosmetics/cash shop things and that's going to be their argument for loss.
Which would match my intuition perfectly.
The interesting thing that is going to be released is whatever player/subscription numbers come out to try and show that it caused a loss to Daybreak. I think what's going to be seen is that the TLPs don't spike the income nearly as much people here seem to think, and that a tremendous amount of people are just always subbed to EQ. For the people that are as invested in the game as I imagine folks like Potter are, they likely have multiple lifetime sub accounts purchased. I'm curious if Daybreak actually makes -any- money from EQ outside of expansions and cash shop purchases period these days... They would just have to show that while their constant sub subscription didn't change, because less people got involved, less people bought cosmetics/cash shop things and that's going to be their argument for loss.
Which would match my intuition perfectly.
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Zaide
TLP Idealist
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