Daybreak Sues The Heroes Journey EQ EMU Server Devs

Mrniceguy · 2025-07-05T14:53:24-0400

Control said:
Can you still /who in thj? Like I said, it would just take a few scrape bots to gather what I mentioned.

Yes, in theory this is possible, but they didn't do that. DBGs lawyers have already stated how they plan on proving these allegations. They're going to present correlation based evidence that they claims controls for some factors, but doesn't control for major ones.

dragonbr · 2025-07-05T15:18:59-0400

Sylas said:
THJ is successful because it turned EQ into WoW...actually went way beyond even WoW, it made not just the leveling, but all group, dungeon, boss and raid content solo content.

The people who still pay DB to play everquest absolutely despise WoW and wouldn't even play THJ out of spite. WoW destroyed their game. WoW is everything wrong with the world, or at least everything wrong with gaming. So yes, they did something that {people who still pay for EQ 26 years later]}would absolutely, positively hate. especially those who reroll on a TLP every year to repeat vanilla through POP, the subs that DB is alleging they may have lost.

I don't know the ranges, i've only just been searching for data because of this thread. anecdotally from EQ forums, low pop servers are all dead, 0 players. medium servers they recommend not to play on because there is only dozen to maybe 100 players, typically its just a single guild left remaining. This is all anecdotal from forum posts and youtube videos.

4 servers with 1k+
14 servers with 0
7 with like 50 ppl each on average?

Yeah total EQ has peak numbers equivalent to THJ.

We could just ask mr 13 posts Dragonbr, i'm guessing he's a Daybreak employee, prolly big mad he's about to get laid off cus a 2 man EMU is more profitable than his company.

Bro don't be a salty little bitch because you were called out for being incapable of deciphering a graph.

I never said they had over 100k. I said you misinterpreted the y-axis and the increments you referred to tenfold. It's actually pretty incredible how you went from vouching for their investor slides and data when it fit your narrative to saying it's bullshit within a matter of hours when it no longer served that purpose.

The MAU numbers referenced in the 2020 PDF (https://www.enadglobal7.com/wp-cont...entation-Dec-2020-Acquires-Daybreak-Games.pdf) are 82k total accounts including F2P and 66k actual subscriptions with a small subset of those being lifetime subscriptions generating no revenue. The revenue listed is the picture is YTD bookings at the end of the 3rd quarter and will exclude a bulk of any expansion revenue. That brings their subscription revenue to 8.9 million of their total 11.5 million under the assumption none of those accounts are lifetime subs.

I don't even know why I'm explaining this to someone who actually thought they have 3000 total active subs only days ago. You are so out of your depth when you admit to using the official forums as a reference point for anything. As I said before, THJ is on par with any of the DBG servers that consistently stay high pop.

Sylas · 2025-07-05T15:31:17-0400

First or all, again you are quoting the mau slide not the sub slide. I'm not sure why you think this is a gotcha, you are looking at the wrong slide. I see I hit a nerve, confirming you are in fact a daybreak employee, lol.

. And no, I said they only have like 4k active players, maybe 16k active subs (down from the 20k active subs in 2023) which matches their server populations.

According to that 2020 data you just posted, they were making 4 mil per month revenue off 62k subs plus cash shop from eq1 in 2020, but as of 2023 they were down to 1.3mil.

So they lost 66% of their subs/revenue in 3 years, or 22% per year.

A 66% loss of subscribers would put them right at 20k subs as of 2023 which is what their YouTube video presentation showed. That would also put them closer to the 1.3mil revenue that matches as well.

I was mistaken when I said they probably lost 10% per year due to attrition from their horrible mismanagement of the franchise. Thank you for pointing out they are losing 22% per year. I doubt they are even profitable at this point with the failure of fangbreaker. That explains the lawsuit after decades of not caring about emus.

also, I don't play EQ so I dont have access to their servers. I did search google for data, which brought back a lot of forum posts, and there were many youtube videos, such as this one:

posted here back when THJ launched. This guy did all the legwork, logging in to all the different live and emu servers and checking population numbers. Everything he says matches what we see from the server status and their financials, that they are down to maybe 4k active players total with about 15k accounts. he claims that the 2k THJ players (at that time) was more than any EQ server had and rivaled any TLP launch such as Teek. He also shows that there were only 3 official EQ servers that were even worth playing on, that had a population large enough to support it. in the 6 months since this video, THJ has more than doubled their peak users while daybreak has launched a new TLP which has diluted their failing player base even further.

dragonbr · 2025-07-05T16:45:40-0400

Sylas said:
First or all, again you are quoting the mau slide not the sub slide. And no, I said they only have like 4k active players, maybe 16k active subs (down from the 20k active subs in 2023) which matches their server populations.

According to that 2020 data you just posted, they were making 4 mil per month revenue off 62k subs plus cash shop from eq1 in 2020, but as of 2023 they were down to 1.3mil.

So they lost 66% of their subs/revenue in 3 years, or 22% per year.

A 66% loss of subscribers would put them right at 20k subs as of 2023 which is what their YouTube video presentation showed. That would also put them closer to the 1.3mil revenue that matches as well.

I was mistaken when I said they probably lost 10% per year due to attrition from their horrible mismanagement of the franchise. Thank you for pointing out they are losing 22% per year. I doubt they are even profitable at this point with the failure of fangbreaker. That explains the lawsuit after decades of not caring about emus.posted here back when THJ launched. This guy did all the legwork, logging in to all the different live and emu servers and checking population numbers. Everything he says matches what we see from the server status and their financials, that they are down to maybe 4k active players total with about 15k accounts. he claims that the 2k THJ players (at that time) was more than any EQ server had and rivaled any TLP launch such as Teek. He also shows that there were only 3 official EQ servers that were even worth playing on, that had a population large enough to support it. in the 6 months since this video, THJ has more than doubled their peak users while daybreak has launched a new TLP which has diluted their failing player base even further.

Post the timestamp of the "subscription slide", because I never saw it.

I feel like I'm talking to an AI that's hallucinating. Here is the picture again. Lets take it step by step.

11.5/9 months = $1,277,777/month not $4,000,000?
On 66k subscriptions, not 62k which ends up being 8.9 million of their 11.5

I'm pretty sure this count all accounts including f2p, but due to lack of data the best we can do is assume the paid versus ftp ratio stays consistent from the 2020 data. Do you see how that grey line ever so slightly goes up after September 2020? That's a graph's way of telling you that the MAU number went up, and not down like you strangely insinuate.

Next up let's hit the "decreased revenue" take. In 2020 they reported 1.27/month and by your very own number from your post 2023 was 1.3/month. We can again take a look at that grey line between Jan 2020-May 2020 and compare it to Jan 2023-May 2023 and those numbers seem to lineup. This is actually a slight increase in revenue and not a 66%? loss.

All of that aside, I'll entertain your 20,000 subscription number. Over the course of the year that would come out to 3.6 generated from subscriptions as a part of their 15.6 total. To make that number work you'd have to assume $12 million is coming from MTX and expansion purchases (even though half of the total population usually has no reason to buy it) or $600 per player/box. I don't know if you've ever looked at their cash shop, but outside of TLP launches it's pretty shit and mostly useless. And in the rare cases you actually do need something, the 500 free points they give you per account per month usually covers it, or accumulates over time.

Sylas said:
posted here back when THJ launched. This guy did all the legwork, logging in to all the different live and emu servers and checking population numbers. Everything he says matches what we see from the server status and their financials, that they are down to maybe 4k active players total with about 15k accounts. he claims that the 2k THJ players (at that time) was more than any EQ server had and rivaled any TLP launch such as Teek. He also shows that there were only 3 official EQ servers that were even worth playing on, that had a population large enough to support it. in the 6 months since this video, THJ has more than doubled their peak users while daybreak has launched a new TLP which has diluted their failing player base even further.

I mean this is flat out incorrect and it's not even up for debate. When teek (a year into it's existence) launched DoN/OOW last month they hit queue status which indicates they were at 4000-5000 online at once. Not sure the exact number after they upgraded their server software, but I'm sure

Elderan has a better idea.

Kirun · 2025-07-05T19:44:04-0400

EQ has literally never been more successful than it is right now. 4-5k/server is even greater than peak 2001 levels. If not for THJ, EQ would probably have a subscriber base in the millions by now.

The defense rests, your honor.

Khane · 2025-07-05T20:06:45-0400

Never Been Better Quest

yerm · 2025-07-05T20:29:04-0400

Mrniceguy said:
Can you sycophants make up your mind? is THJ the boogyman that's causing EQ to go out of business or is it so pathetic it doesn't even clear Non-Flop TLP numbers. Pick a lane.

We don't have to pick a lane. Eq can be a poorly managed stifler of innovation whose failures are their own doing... and still completely in the legal right in their lawsuit. Thj can be a massive unparalleled success or barely on par with a single average tlp server... and still be in legal trouble either way.

Gravel · 2025-07-05T21:22:38-0400

Sylas said:
That's not the slide I was talking about.

That is Monthly average users, and according to that slide, EQ has less than 100k (around 90k?), not 100-200k. I don't believe that for a second, personally, and I hope this lawsuit reveals the real figures. I don't know, maybe they are bringing in tens of thousands of bots/free players each month but that's not the slide I was referring to. There is another slide later on (that they never make full screen) that shows 10-20k subscribers, not monthly average users.

also 90k players x 14.99 a month or whatever the sub is, would be more monthly revenue than they claim, by a lot. So it's got to be lots of f2p mixed in, assuming they sell no krono, which we know is false, most of their income is cash shop not subs.

for the record, looking at the EQ live server status they only have 4 servers with more than 1k players each on them (high). can you imagine thinking they had 100k subs logging in monthly but with so few players playing? THJ has 3k online right now, for the record

There's no fucking chance. Just look at Steam charts for players and if the numbers they're claiming were legit, it'd make EverQuest one of the most popular games being played, every single year, since its creation.

Cracking 10k concurrent puts you in the top 100 most of the time.

Sylas · 2025-07-05T22:02:21-0400

dragonbr said:
Post the timestamp of the "subscription slide", because I never saw it.
~stuff~
I mean this is flat out incorrect and it's not even up for debate. When teek (a year into it's existence) launched DoN/OOW last month they hit queue status which indicates they were at 4000-5000 online at once. Not sure the exact number after they upgraded their server software, but I'm sure Elderan has a better idea.

Yeah that one is on me, my bad. I looked at the chart and saw Quarter, didn't see YTD. since i saw september I figured it couldn't possibly be annual, I forgot that they are not an american company and don't use Fiscal Years for some reason, but calendar year? fucking weird. So i divided revenue by 3 instead of by 9.

The numbers though, they do not match up at all and now i'm suspicious of all their data. It's looking more like money laundering than anything at this point. They claimed 66k subs in 2020, and the chart shows MAU is mostly flat, slight elevation in 2021 (prolly pandemic) but then falls back down...but then in 2023 they claim that despite drops in subs due to post-pandemic activity, their ebitda was still positive due to low costs?

And you might not believe that one youtuber, but literally every single streamer and youtuber for EQ, ion, void, stoic guy, they all are saying the same thing when it comes to activity/sub numbers, so I'm going to take their word over yours. Personally I don't know any of these fucks, I don't play EQ, but these are the most popular EQ streamers (but only 1-10k subscribers themselves, which speaks volumes to how many eq players remain), there is no way they are still sitting at 80k MAU and definitely not anywhere near 60k subs. If so, where the fuck are they all? They aren't playing on any EQ server. And where is all the revenue? if those numbers were accurate then that would mean they only have subscribers, no one buys anything in the cash shop, and they only sell exactly as many krono as needed to cover their active accounts each month? /doubt

If I had to guess, beyond money laundering, their sub numbers are massively inflated, perhaps they sold more of those lifetime subscriptions than you think? those will always show as active, even well past the deaths of the players, because their is never a renewal charge. maybe EQ is 40k lifetime subs and 20k month to month? Or perhaps they are manipulating the numbers via the station pass? its 1 sub that gives you access to every game, and they are double/triple dipping?

I refuse to believe a monthly subscription game only has 4% of its total paid player base logging in each month.

Rezz · 2025-07-05T22:07:28-0400

I refuse to believe a monthly subscription game only has 4% of its total paid player base logging in each month.

I mean that's actually the entire fitness industry's gym model in a nutshell.

And they don't even offer lifetime subs for a flat onetime fee like EQ has repeatedly over the years.

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Daybreak Sues The Heroes Journey EQ EMU Server Devs

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