Daybreak Sues The Heroes Journey EQ EMU Server Devs

Sylas

Sylas

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dragonbr said:
Are you really comparing monthly subscriptions numbers to total players that ever gave thj a shot over the course of 7 months on a ftp model? 😆 its an incredibly developed ruleset, so I'm not denying that but there is definitely playerbase overlap. Why would active eq players not give a quality product that has no cost barrier a run?

The server's average concurrent user count is like 1800-2000(with online traders and no afk disconnect), which is great for an emu, but also puts it on par with any of the high pop dbg servers.
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Last I played and last I saw it had over 4k peak daily players not sure where you are getting this 1800 from? I mean if you are averaging that 3am-6am time slots in when its nothing but traders afk sure.

I don't know how many total players tried it but I'd wager its well above 50k since they had 20k active players and i assume a large number tried and didn't like it or stopped playing after a while.

So no I'm comparing active players vs active players and the only reason this lawsuit exists is 2 fans made a mod that dwarfs not only the live subscription servers but also all other emus combined.
 
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dragonbr

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Sylas said:
Last I played and last I saw it had over 4k peak daily players not sure where you are getting this 1800 from? I mean if you are averaging that 3am-6am time slots in when its nothing but traders afk sure.

I don't know how many total players tried it but I'd wager its well above 50k since they had 20k active players and i assume a large number tried and didn't like it or stopped playing after a while.

So no I'm comparing active players vs active players and the only reason this lawsuit exists is 2 fans made a mod that dwarfs not only the live subscription servers but also all other emus combined.
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Screenshot_20250705_065459_Samsung Internet.jpg

On the eqemu website.

Any non flop tlp hits that peak on launch day. Leaked data for the day yelinak/vaniki launch showed 16,000 unique logins between those 2 combined with mischief.

Im not aware of how someone would know what the total active for thj would be, so Im genuinely curious where these 20k and 50k numbers are being pulled from.
 
Sylas

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What is that, a screenshot for ants? Seriously can't read it. I'll try and find the source.

Oh and "leaked data"? Yeah right. I'll believe the enads investor data over some bullshit numbers like that. You're telling me every single eq subscriber logged into both tlps and mischief? Oh combined? OK so eqlive is dead dead, only tlp players remaining, got it.

OK let's say that's true, still proves eq live has less active players than thj and furthermore proves there is less cross over between thj and tlps.

if 100% of eq subscribers play on tlps exclusively and Tlps are exclusively for old school nostalgia group content/boxing community, then there's practically zero overlap with thj. I had assumed there were still people playing eq live (latest content) where as eq live has become more solo friendly (though still multiboxing)

You are basically proving my point. The only people playing eq are just reliving the group/raid focused vanilla through pop or whatever content on the annual tlp releases, dealing with botter armies farming gear for krono. these are the least likely people to try a ultra-wowified version of eq where all content including dungeons and raids are made for single character solo play.
 
Sylas

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yes thank you, I went to the eq emu site myself since I couldn't see the screenshot on my phone.

I see that at 0830 in the morning the day after a holiday of beer, bbq, and fireworks, that THJ, a locked server under threat of shutting down due to lawsuit, has 2380 players, more players than every other EMU combined. I don't see eq live figures but i'd be willing to bet that they are beating EQ live as well. (by player count, if not by account totals, but possibly both?)

Also it looks like peak is 4525, more than the 4k i thought it was. So thank you for continuing to prove my point for me :)
 
moonarchia

moonarchia

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Sylas said:
yes thank you, I went to the eq emu site myself since I couldn't see the screenshot on my phone.

I see that at 0830 in the morning the day after a holiday of beer, bbq, and fireworks, that THJ, a locked server under threat of shutting down due to lawsuit, has 2380 players, more players than every other EMU combined. I don't see eq live figures but i'd be willing to bet that they are beating EQ live as well. (by player count, if not by account totals, but possibly both?)

Also it looks like peak is 4525, more than the 4k i thought it was. So thank you for continuing to prove my point for me :)
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The average has been going down the past few weeks. Whether that is due to burnout or the lawsuit is anyone's guess. I am going to keep playing until it gets shut down, which will probably be in a few weeks when DPG gets a ruling on their injunction request. I forget which thread had the law beagle timeline, but basically DPG gets to make their formal injunction request by 7/16. Then THJ gets a few days to reply. Then DPG gets to reply. Then 8/12 is the hearing. So if there is no settlement before then that is most likely the cutoff date. THJ's only real option at this point is to ask DPG what their terms are, and to accept them.
 
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dragonbr

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Sylas said:
What is that, a screenshot for ants? Seriously can't read it. I'll try and find the source.

Oh and "leaked data"? Yeah right. I'll believe the enads investor data over some bullshit numbers like that. You're telling me every single eq subscriber logged into both tlps and mischief? Oh combined? OK so eqlive is dead dead, only tlp players remaining, got it.

OK let's say that's true, still proves eq live has less active players than thj and furthermore proves there is less cross over between thj and tlps.

if 100% of eq subscribers play on tlps exclusively and Tlps are exclusively for old school nostalgia group content/boxing community, then there's practically zero overlap with thj. I had assumed there were still people playing eq live (latest content) where as eq live has become more solo friendly (though still multiboxing)

You are basically proving my point. The only people playing eq are just reliving the group/raid focused vanilla through pop or whatever content on the annual tlp releases, dealing with botter armies farming gear for krono. these are the least likely people to try a ultra-wowified version of eq where all content including dungeons and raids are made for single character solo play.
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I'd suggest making an appointment with an optometrist. I'm also glad you trust the investor data because I went back and checked your subscription # you keep using from the video posted earlier in this thread. You're reading that y-axis as 10,000-20,000 increments, when they are 100,000 - 200,000.

1751725426397.png


This falls inline with their released MAU count they presented when they were bought towards the end of 2020.

1751725521705.png
 
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Kirun

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Sounds to me like Daybreak is doing phenomenally then. That means THJ must've not really affected the bottom line at all, with how well the company is doing and how few people are playing THJ.

Case closed, your honor.
 
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Mrniceguy

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Can you sycophants make up your mind? is THJ the boogyman that's causing EQ to go out of business or is it so pathetic it doesn't even clear Non-Flop TLP numbers. Pick a lane.
 
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Control

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dragonbr said:
I'd suggest making an appointment with an optometrist. I'm also glad you trust the investor data because I went back and checked your subscription # you keep using from the video posted earlier in this thread. You're reading that y-axis as 10,000-20,000 increments, when they are 100,000 - 200,000.

View attachment 592979

This falls inline with their released MAU count they presented when they were bought towards the end of 2020.

View attachment 592980
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Huh, so eq actually gained users between 2020 and 2023? Would never have guessed that.

Rezz said:
The interesting thing that is going to be released is whatever player/subscription numbers come out to try and show that it caused a loss to Daybreak.
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Also, people keep talking about proving that eq lost subscribers to tlj, but that's not necessary for tlj to be fucked. Brand damage/dilution is plenty. But it seems pretty crazy for people to argue that tlj hasn't cost eq any money. "number of people who want to play eq in some form and are also willing to pay" is a very limited number, and if your emu is servicing thousands of those... Not even to mention that with some logging/scraping, they could pretty convincingly show that some number of accounts did move from one to the other, which would definitely show that it's a shared market. "Oh look, an account with a character named Control was subscribed and logged in daily from 8-10pm est, then we see him unsub and a character with the same name and playtimes is now on tlj." Not perfect of course, but it doesn't have to be perfect to be convincing.

That also makes it seem a bit dumb to keep tlj running during this process. It just gives db a chance to gather extra data. Of course, unless db is dumb, they'd have already gathered the data they needed. Always lots of dumb to go around though so /shrug.
 
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Kriptini

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Kirun said:
Sounds to me like Daybreak is doing phenomenally then. That means THJ must've not really affected the bottom line at all, with how well the company is doing and how few people are playing THJ.

Case closed, your honor.
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Seriously, Daybreak has 99 cents to their name and they're going to spend it on suing an emulator team that also has 99 cents to their name? Genius strategy.
 
D

dragonbr

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Control said:
Huh, so eq actually gained users between 2020 and 2023? Would never have guessed that.
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2020 had aradune launch during covid while Mangler was still putting up extremely good numbers. 2021 had mischief which did great. So between the 3, they ended up retaining more players for longer periods of time than what was seen before on the tlp front.

Since then I would assume the numbers probably arent as peachy. Expansions are extremely cookie cutter, 3 of the last 4 tlps sets would be considered failures when comparing to the ones above, and they have a much more aggressive stance on suspension/bans.
 
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moonarchia

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Kirun said:
Sounds to me like Daybreak is doing phenomenally then. That means THJ must've not really affected the bottom line at all, with how well the company is doing and how few people are playing THJ.

Case closed, your honor.
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Would be fucking awesome if that's how copyright worked. The only question left at this point is how far up the THJ devs' asses DPG is going to shove the Spiked Dildo of Lawfare. They can go for the jugular and ask for a lot more than the THJ team took in just on per infringement basis. Every copy of the game downloaded from Steam and every account that logged in is at least one infringement.

Now, this is a civil case, so the THJ guys can just go into bankruptcy to make that extra debt go away, but if DPG is making an example out of them they are still going to have to take the L and there is a lot of data and other things they will have to give up.
 
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Sylas

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That's not the slide I was talking about.

That is Monthly average users, and according to that slide, EQ has less than 100k (around 90k?), not 100-200k. I don't believe that for a second, personally, and I hope this lawsuit reveals the real figures. I don't know, maybe they are bringing in tens of thousands of bots/free players each month but that's not the slide I was referring to. There is another slide later on (that they never make full screen) that shows 10-20k subscribers, not monthly average users.

also 90k players x 14.99 a month or whatever the sub is, would be more monthly revenue than they claim, by a lot. So it's got to be lots of f2p mixed in, assuming they sell no krono, which we know is false, most of their income is cash shop not subs.

for the record, looking at the EQ live server status they only have 4 servers with more than 1k players each on them (high). can you imagine thinking they had 100k subs logging in monthly but with so few players playing? THJ has 3k online right now, for the record
 
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Mrniceguy

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Control said:
Also, people keep talking about proving that eq lost subscribers to tlj, but that's not necessary for tlj to be fucked. Brand damage/dilution is plenty. But it seems pretty crazy for people to argue that tlj hasn't cost eq any money. "number of people who want to play eq in some form and are also willing to pay" is a very limited number, and if your emu is servicing thousands of those... Not even to mention that with some logging/scraping, they could pretty convincingly show that some number of accounts did move from one to the other, which would definitely show that it's a shared market. "Oh look, an account with a character named Control was subscribed and logged in daily from 8-10pm est, then we see him unsub and a character with the same name and playtimes is now on tlj." Not perfect of course, but it doesn't have to be perfect to be conv
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That would require them to have a lot of information DBG doesn't have. DBG has already stated how they intend to prove the "Loss of subs." They will provide weak correlation based evidence that lacks the ability to control for other factors and is contradictory to what their parent company EG7 is stating.
 
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Sylas

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Control said:
But it seems pretty crazy for people to argue that tlj hasn't cost eq any money. "number of people who want to play eq in some form and are also willing to pay" is a very limited number, and if your emu is servicing thousands of those... Not even to mention that with some logging/scraping, they could pretty convincingly show that some number of accounts did move from one to the other, which would definitely show that it's a shared market. "Oh look, an account with a character named Control was subscribed and logged in daily from 8-10pm est, then we see him unsub and a character with the same name and playtimes is now on tlj." Not perfect of course, but it doesn't have to be perfect to be convincing.

That also makes it seem a bit dumb to keep tlj running during this process. It just gives db a chance to gather extra data. Of course, unless db is dumb, they'd have already gathered the data they needed. Always lots of dumb to go around though so /shrug.
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Yeah this is where you are missing the point.

"I want to play EQ, but i have no money" those types are playing on any of the dozens of EQ classic style emulators designed to recreate one of the multitude of versions of EQ from yesteryear, from P99 through any of a dozen other iterations. There has been plenty of free EQ for decades now, to scratch every type of itch you have. And if they have money? They are playing on a TLP. These are players that either have a set group of friends/guild that they reroll with every TLP launch, or they 6 box their own groups. That's the game they want.

THJ appeals to people who stopped playing EQ the moment they no longer had time to play a forced grouping game due to career, family, age, etc. They do not want to play a game that requires other players in order to progress. They want to be able to solo all group and raid content. Guild chat is just for sharing memes. there is virtually zero overlap between these two player bases.

as to why they are keeping the server running? perhaps they are holding out hope that DB will overstep and claim damages/financial losses and they know they will be able to prove the opposite. I mean they are just 2 retards who made a mod to the eq emu software, they weren't even smart enough to run it out of a country who doesn't listen to US courts.

As far as DB, they are too fucking stupid to make a lvl 1 rogue to take their own screenshots of vox and naggy for their own case, so yeah they are also big dumb
 
Control

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Sylas said:
for the record, looking at the EQ live server status they only have 4 servers with more than 1k players each on them (high). can you imagine thinking they had 100k subs logging in monthly but with so few players playing? THJ has 3k online right now, for the record
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No idea how those labels reflect users, but assuming that high means at least 1k and there's no higher label, that only shows you a minimum, right? So at least 4k concurrent, plus 20+ other servers? 10 at medium? If that's 500-1000, then that's another 5-10k users? So at least 10k concurrent? 10 to 1 monthly/concurrent sounds much higher than I would expect for eq tbh, even if half of them are perma-online bazaar bots (if that's even still a thing).
 
Control

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Sylas said:
there is virtually zero overlap between these two player bases.

As far as DB, they are too fucking stupid to make a lvl 1 rogue to take their own screenshots of vox and naggy for their own case, so yeah they are also big dumb
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thj is successful because it added a fun and interesting spin on eq mechanics? That definitely sounds like something that eq players would hate!

Also lol yeah, there's probably not much sensible happening on either side of this.

Mrniceguy said:
That would require them to have a lot of information DBG doesn't have.
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Can you still /who in thj? Like I said, it would just take a few scrape bots to gather what I mentioned.
 
Sylas

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Control said:
thj is successful because it added a fun and interesting spin on eq mechanics? That definitely sounds like something that eq players would hate!

Also lol yeah, there's probably not much sensible happening on either side of this.


Can you still /who in thj? Like I said, it would just take a few scrape bots to gather what I mentioned.
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THJ is successful because it turned EQ into WoW...actually went way beyond even WoW, it made not just the leveling, but all group, dungeon, boss and raid content solo content.

The people who still pay DB to play everquest absolutely despise WoW and wouldn't even play THJ out of spite. WoW destroyed their game. WoW is everything wrong with the world, or at least everything wrong with gaming. So yes, they did something that {people who still pay for EQ 26 years later]}would absolutely, positively hate. especially those who reroll on a TLP every year to repeat vanilla through POP, the subs that DB is alleging they may have lost.

No idea how those labels reflect users, but assuming that high means at least 1k and there's no higher label, that only shows you a minimum, right? So at least 4k concurrent, plus 20+ other servers? 10 at medium? If that's 500-1000, then that's another 5-10k users? So at least 10k concurrent? 10 to 1 monthly/concurrent sounds much higher than I would expect for eq tbh, even if half of them are perma-online bazaar bots (if that's even still a thing).
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I don't know the ranges, i've only just been searching for data because of this thread. anecdotally from EQ forums, low pop servers are all dead, 0 players. medium servers they recommend not to play on because there is only dozen to maybe 100 players, typically its just a single guild left remaining. This is all anecdotal from forum posts and youtube videos.

4 servers with 1k+
14 servers with 0
7 with like 50 ppl each on average?

Yeah total EQ has peak numbers equivalent to THJ.

We could just ask mr 13 posts Dragonbr, i'm guessing he's a Daybreak employee, prolly big mad he's about to get laid off cus a 2 man EMU is more profitable than his company.
 
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