Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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I don't really care for my PSU (I didn't buy gold like an idiot, not even sure why at the time)
Desktop Computers
- Thread starter brekk
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The search begins for a saviour next gen x86 architecture successor @ Intel ! Senior CPU Microarchitect Careers at Intel in Hillsboro, OR
Would be hillarious if Keller (who just this week joined Intel) got hired for this team. AMD's turn to milk their Zen for a few more generations before hiring him back hehe.
Would be hillarious if Keller (who just this week joined Intel) got hired for this team. AMD's turn to milk their Zen for a few more generations before hiring him back hehe.
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If sky's the limit for your htpc budget then the new Hades Canyon linked a few pages up is one of the best options for a classic PC based htpc.
I'm looking to go cheaper here though, planning to retire my old AM1 mini-itx box to closet file serving & torenting duties, replacing it with a low power AM4 Zen APU. Should be nice enough upgrade for 4k rips + some more light gaming and Plex work presently handled by an older ATX tower.
I'm looking to go cheaper here though, planning to retire my old AM1 mini-itx box to closet file serving & torenting duties, replacing it with a low power AM4 Zen APU. Should be nice enough upgrade for 4k rips + some more light gaming and Plex work presently handled by an older ATX tower.
Argarth
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With the arrival of AMD Zen+ I've finally completed my latest build, and I'm actually excited about CPU tech again for the first time in years.
(finally decommissioned my old faithful i7-2600k... /sniff)
Main components:
CPU: Ryzen 2700X of course!
GPU: MSI GTX1080Ti DUKE-11G-OC GPU
M/B: Gigabyte X470-AORUS-ULTRA-GAMING Motherboard
Memory: Corsair Dominator-Platinum 16GB 3000MHz Memory
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12p Cooler
Case: Corsair Obsidian 450D Case
Reasons:
Was lucky enough to pick up the 1080Ti DUKE before the last price hike; it was also the best value for money at the time. The core auto-boosts to 1900+ under load (contrary to the website specs), it's whisper quiet and has great cooling. Limited choices in X470 Motherboards at my local dealers, so I got the best one available without Wi-Fi, since home is hard-wired. Went with the Corsair 3000 Memory because it's validated for the M/B, was far cheaper than the available 3200 memory, and had slightly tighter timings than the validated 3200 sticks anyway.
I've had the Noctua cooler for many years, no reason to change, and the AM4 adapter kit was cheap. Decided to add a second Noctua fan, and after lots of testing I've set manual profiles in the BIOS for both of them. I've had the Case for some time also; the fully perforated base and top plates seems to help with general airflow, and I've found no need to add any extra fans as a result. On the new M/B, I've also been able to mount the Noctua horizontally, so the CPU fans push the bulk of the heat straight out through the top of the case.
Some testing:
Tried the AMD "Cool'n'Quiet" setting in BIOS, and it seems to work as advertised. It lowers CPU voltages and clocks significantly on low loads, and also reduces idle temp a further few °C. Seems to ramp up again quickly, but (I think) I noticed some delays when loading apps straight from idle. Interesting to see the clocks on all CPU cores at idle (using HWiNFO64) would sometimes fluctuate from as low as 2.5 GHz right up to as high as 4.35 Ghz! though never at the same time of course. For an office PC I would definitely leave it on, but since this is a gaming rig, I turned it off.
I've not manually overclocked the CPU at all. It now runs out of the box @ 4.1 GHz at idle, and the new Ryzen architecture seems to deal dynamically with voltages and clocks just fine. I think having good CPU cooling is integral to the performance. I initially tried the included Wriath Prism Cooler, and for a stock cooler it's an absolute treat. I was getting a lower idle clock though, (closer to 4 Ghz) and it's just not thermally up to the task under load (also noisy). I kinda miss the flashy RGB lighting on it though.
Running Prime95 FPU torture test, with both fans @ ~1300rpm (max is 2300rpm), and with the system auto-throttling the CPU back to ~3.8 GHz, the noise is actually quite tolerable. Tested on the Prism Cooler, the CPU throttling was way more severe, and that was with the poor fan screaming at 100% rpm. =)
Back in the real world, under any sort of gaming load so far, the Noctua fans are nearly inaudible @ ~ 800-900 rpm, and all CPU cores hover around 4 Ghz. (edit#1: Idle CPU fan speeds set to ~500 rpm for a silent desktop)
A few quick examples @ 2560x1080: "Ghost Recon Wildlands" - High/Ultra - all 16 threads between 30% & 70% in-game benchmark - 97FPS. "DOOM" running in x64 Vulcan, everything maxed out, big firefight, I'm nearly always at the game engine cap of 200FPS, and all 16 threads running between 40% and 60% sharing the load very evenly. "Battlefield 1" - everything maxed in DX12 - in a firefight - 110-140 FPS - most threads being used fairly evenly.
Really hope we get some more Vulcan titles soon, or more games making better use of DX12.
(edit#2:
Couldn't be happier.
(finally decommissioned my old faithful i7-2600k... /sniff)
Main components:
CPU: Ryzen 2700X of course!
GPU: MSI GTX1080Ti DUKE-11G-OC GPU
M/B: Gigabyte X470-AORUS-ULTRA-GAMING Motherboard
Memory: Corsair Dominator-Platinum 16GB 3000MHz Memory
Cooling: Noctua NH-U12p Cooler
Case: Corsair Obsidian 450D Case
Reasons:
Was lucky enough to pick up the 1080Ti DUKE before the last price hike; it was also the best value for money at the time. The core auto-boosts to 1900+ under load (contrary to the website specs), it's whisper quiet and has great cooling. Limited choices in X470 Motherboards at my local dealers, so I got the best one available without Wi-Fi, since home is hard-wired. Went with the Corsair 3000 Memory because it's validated for the M/B, was far cheaper than the available 3200 memory, and had slightly tighter timings than the validated 3200 sticks anyway.
I've had the Noctua cooler for many years, no reason to change, and the AM4 adapter kit was cheap. Decided to add a second Noctua fan, and after lots of testing I've set manual profiles in the BIOS for both of them. I've had the Case for some time also; the fully perforated base and top plates seems to help with general airflow, and I've found no need to add any extra fans as a result. On the new M/B, I've also been able to mount the Noctua horizontally, so the CPU fans push the bulk of the heat straight out through the top of the case.
Some testing:
Tried the AMD "Cool'n'Quiet" setting in BIOS, and it seems to work as advertised. It lowers CPU voltages and clocks significantly on low loads, and also reduces idle temp a further few °C. Seems to ramp up again quickly, but (I think) I noticed some delays when loading apps straight from idle. Interesting to see the clocks on all CPU cores at idle (using HWiNFO64) would sometimes fluctuate from as low as 2.5 GHz right up to as high as 4.35 Ghz! though never at the same time of course. For an office PC I would definitely leave it on, but since this is a gaming rig, I turned it off.
I've not manually overclocked the CPU at all. It now runs out of the box @ 4.1 GHz at idle, and the new Ryzen architecture seems to deal dynamically with voltages and clocks just fine. I think having good CPU cooling is integral to the performance. I initially tried the included Wriath Prism Cooler, and for a stock cooler it's an absolute treat. I was getting a lower idle clock though, (closer to 4 Ghz) and it's just not thermally up to the task under load (also noisy). I kinda miss the flashy RGB lighting on it though.
Running Prime95 FPU torture test, with both fans @ ~1300rpm (max is 2300rpm), and with the system auto-throttling the CPU back to ~3.8 GHz, the noise is actually quite tolerable. Tested on the Prism Cooler, the CPU throttling was way more severe, and that was with the poor fan screaming at 100% rpm. =)
Back in the real world, under any sort of gaming load so far, the Noctua fans are nearly inaudible @ ~ 800-900 rpm, and all CPU cores hover around 4 Ghz. (edit#1: Idle CPU fan speeds set to ~500 rpm for a silent desktop)
A few quick examples @ 2560x1080: "Ghost Recon Wildlands" - High/Ultra - all 16 threads between 30% & 70% in-game benchmark - 97FPS. "DOOM" running in x64 Vulcan, everything maxed out, big firefight, I'm nearly always at the game engine cap of 200FPS, and all 16 threads running between 40% and 60% sharing the load very evenly. "Battlefield 1" - everything maxed in DX12 - in a firefight - 110-140 FPS - most threads being used fairly evenly.
Really hope we get some more Vulcan titles soon, or more games making better use of DX12.
(edit#2:
Temperature testing done with DOOM and GRW, since they consistently use all 16 threads fairly evenly, @ around 45% to 50% average CPU utilization. Went looking for busy scenes/action and ran the graph function in HWiNFO on CPU(Tdie). AMD's own Ryzen-Master software agrees with these values, so I'm assuming they are correct/reading the same sensor:
~ 37 °C Idle temp @ ~ 4.1GHz |||| ~ 60°C in-game temp @ ~ 4.0Ghz
Both games produced almost identical and really steady temps. Perhaps a fluke, but I did notice the Volts/Clocks settling at slightly different values between the two. It almost seems like Ryzen is hunting for a "sweet spot" thermally, and adjusting settings on the fly. Wacky theory, but would also help to explain my +100MHz improved idle clock as soon as I changed to the Noctua cooler. Colour me intrigued. 
)
)
Will probably tinker around with some manual overclocking sooner or later, but I just don't need the extra FPS. Loving the gaming AND thermal performance right now, especially with air cooling.Couldn't be happier.
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Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Intel is fucked.
Intel has nothing new(aside from 8c CL) on the horizon consumer wise until 2H2019, as their 10nm process is a dumpster fire. AMD on the other hand is sampling their 7nm Ryzen/Epyc 2 later this year, and will be releasing consumer 7nm Ryzen early 2019.
Everything ive read said its pretty much pointless to overclock new Ryzen processors, as AMD already pushes them as about as hard as they can be. Overclocking all cores to 4.2 is actually a detriment as you lose 100-150mhz on 1 or 2 cores which is more important in games.
Ill be building building a Ryzen system here in the next week or two, just need to decide on what I want to do storage wise.
Argarth
On the verandah
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I have read the same thing, and even the results I got fooling around with "Cool'n'Quiet" under various loads seem to confirm it to some degree. It was a bit like watching a Sine Wave; as some go up the others go down and vice-versa. Agree, wouldn't want to see that behaviour in a game.
I don't really need more performance, so even a stable all-core OC to 4.2gHz probably won't be worth the voltage and heat penalty to me.
I'll probably test it anyway just to see for myself.
(p.s. As far as storage goes, the only thing I'm still drooling over is PCIe M.2 SSD
)
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Umm.... no. Getting a little ahead of reality here perhaps? Quick check....
Intell does and will continue dominate.... just by a much smaller margin.
Might loose large % of market. But it has far to sink before its f*cked though .
- It will hurt and bleed in consumer space,
- and bleed even more in server space.
- Can only get better given its tiny share now.
- Rosyish outlook at least until Zen 3.
Manufacturing Process
- #1 Intel still best. Intel will pay to fix it and water down their scaling/density targets. Intel has tons of headroom to bin and release higher default clocks @ lower margins.
- #2 AMD close second @ 14, AMD is against the wall process wise, no clock headroom left. *could* be crushed if Intel upped default clocks
- next year? 7nm performance unknown at TSMC and GloFo
- #1 Intel still best. In all respects. Intel can afford to reshuffle existing uarch blocks to cobble together better chip to beat anything AMD has.
- #2 AMD is close: effective parity, even leads in some workloads but only due to extra cores.
- next year AMD #1? Might be able to take scaling lead thanks to its fabric + dies strategy.
- #1. Intel big winner, still due to both Process (700Mhz + turbo/oc headroom) and Architecture (better caches)
- #2 AMD close second in most workloads.
- next year AMD tie or slight lead? Performance might be up enough to be in striking distance of lead with Zen 2.
- #1 Intel still leads though by slighter margin.
- #2 AMD tied on some workloads, but overall Intell still leads in rest due to better caches.
- Zen 2 could take a lead tough depending on how good next process node is
- Intel can only go down, perhaps a lot unless GloFo/TSMC screw up 7nm badly.
- AMD can only go up over next 1-2 years. Profitability here to stay.
- Overall Intel continue to lead except @ price (which they can afford to drop if want).
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Noodleface
A Mod Real Quick
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Everything ive read about AMD vs Intel and gaming is pretty much all reliant on GPU these days, especially at 1440p or even 1080p. So these Ryzens and Intels are negligible as far as FPS, its all about that GPU. But still for multi thread processes, even shit like music, video encoding, and other media the latest 6 core i7 still smokes the best Ryzen. But its close, really close and the closest AMD has been in decades. And considering the cash you save, well it makes more sense to go Ryzen. Which is great for everyone. The next gen Ryzens should hopefully overtake intel.
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I am shopping around here atm as well to rebuild my workstation and htpc. Looking forward already to a cheap Zen 2 upgrade in 2019, and retiring another old gaming system at same time to rebuild around this Zen+. Hopefully coincides well with a cheaper graphics card upgrade by then.
Looking @ same system as yours but only thing holding me up is the RAM.
I would like to go with 32GB, 16GB x 2 @ ~3000-3200. Just not sure its worth risk trying to get so much RAM and having to downclock if fails. Anyone here using 32GB with 2x16 Dimms?
Might just get an M2 drive instead and settle for 2 x 8GB DDR4 for now, use em for htpc upgrade later in year once I find a verified 32GB config.
Going to try the new stock cooler as it doesnt seem worth effort to OC at all. If it is too loud maybe I can re-use my Hyper 212 once I find a bracket for AM4.
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Meh, you dont need 32gb of ram. I have it in my 6 core xeon workstation at work with heavy cad software, plus all the other shit I have running, MS office, email, other engineering software, etc, etc... loading entire cockpit modules plus all the background body data at the same time in cad, sometimes running multiple instances of Siemens NX standalone and teamcenter versions and I barely scratch 10 gb. 16gb is more than enough for home use. My IT dude was running a script a while back to guage how much resources I was using for future workstation ordering and he noticed the same thing. The only reason we still order 32gb is because of the CAE team (FEA modeling) which uses the same workstations (easier to order just one kind) and their software does use all the RAM you can thow at it.
I have 8gb in the 3 PC i have at home, 2 kids PC i5 circa 2017 they game on and my main PC, i5 circa 2015 and I never need anymore. And I do shit with Photoshop and also run cad shit all the time on mine sometimes taking my work home.
I have 8gb in the 3 PC i have at home, 2 kids PC i5 circa 2017 they game on and my main PC, i5 circa 2015 and I never need anymore. And I do shit with Photoshop and also run cad shit all the time on mine sometimes taking my work home.
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Argarth
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If you really want 32GB Ram, just check the supported memory list for your chosen Motherboard.
e.g. For my Motherboard, there are a few validated (16GB x 2) kits at 3000 and 3200 here > Support Lists for Memory / M2 / SSD
Pretty sure all motherboard manufacturers are producing these lists now. Wouldn't touch one that doesn't.
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Okay so I get that NVMe is like 7x as fast as SSD's, but is that actually a noticeable difference? I have a 250gb SSD that has windows and some games like PUBG on it. If I were to get like a 960 Evo or 960 Pro would I notice it? Is the pro worth the extra money?
Help me friends. The articles just talk about so much faster, but are we realistically talking about differences in milliseconds or something you can tell?
Edit: I have z270e motherboard, it says it has m.2 slots, this is what I need right?
Edit 2: I also have a 2TB storage drive that has whatever games and stuff on it
Help me friends. The articles just talk about so much faster, but are we realistically talking about differences in milliseconds or something you can tell?
Edit: I have z270e motherboard, it says it has m.2 slots, this is what I need right?
Edit 2: I also have a 2TB storage drive that has whatever games and stuff on it
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Lanx
<Prior Amod>
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you got the 2700x so you got the rgb led wraith cooler? ppl say its comparable to evo212s
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Argarth
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The exact make and model of your motherboard would help, but the z270E chip-set does support max possible throughput for PCIe NVME M.2. (Depends what the M/B maker implemented on your model)
Pulled this quickly from google:
The last line is what you are interested in. Your M.2 sockets need to be PCIe Gen 3 x4 lanes available. Unless you have a ton of PCIe devices hanging off your system, you should have plenty of lanes free.
And yes, the difference in performance should really blow your socks off, way more than even SSD did for us when we first encountered it. Right now, we're still running our SSDs on SATA III.
The extra grunt that the PRO offers seems overpriced, personal choice. Can't wait to get one myself, soooonish. =)
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Problem is that most mid range mo-bos only have 1 m.2 slot. Its nto a big deal if you go the standard way of having 1ssd drive for your OS and main programs and games then regular platters for everything else. I guess they are cheap enough now that you can get a 500gb and thats more than enough for OS and most of your programs, including your game(s) of the month.
Jysin
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Hit the nail on the head there. 500G drive for OS and most frequently used games, traditional platter for movies and everything else. I still have tons of free space on my SSD. If I were buying an SSD today and my MB supported NVMe, you'd be crazy to buy a SATA SSD. Why bottleneck the fuck out of it? It's an interface issue, not the SSD itself. SATA was great for its day.. tech has just evolved far beyond its design scope. NVMe all the way.
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ROG STRIX Z270E GAMING | ROG - Republic Of Gamers | ASUS USA
Yeah, according to that I can use at least the slot in the middle, and maybe the slot in the bottom right?
I think I'll just get the Evo. A couple of the things I looked at last night makes me think the difference isn't too high considering it's 50% more for the pro
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Lol, well I do *need* and use my RAM for work. All depends on your workloads.
I def agree that for gaming and most other scenarios with off the shelf software 8GB is perfect.
I would like to have potential to upgrade to 64 GB and experiment with spawning multiple Windows test client builds in a vm with gpu passthrough. Should be great for building, debugging, regression and live client testing scenarios all on the same machine without dual-booting or extra hardware needed now.
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Cool, thanks. I'm still looking at motherboards, RAM compatability and prices. But def going for the bundled 2700x cooler.