Doctor Who

Cybsled

Cybsled

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It wasn't that bad - the ending concept was odd (although they seem to handwave it as possible due to the Toymaker warping reality), but the episode itself was pretty good. I like when the Toymaker put on the play talking about Amy Pond and Clara and the Doctor starts getting pissed (although how does the Doctor know about Clara's 'survival'?). Although I am still wondering what their long term plans will be. If I had to guess, Tennant Doctor and his TARDIS are going to sacrifice themselves in a later episode or special to restore the part of the universe that got deleted by the Flux. Either that or they'll pull the same duplication concept with the universe and the universe will duplicate with the Tennant Doctor staying in the fucked up universe and new Doctor staying in the restored duplicated universe.
 
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Chris

Chris

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Chukzombi said:
sounds crazy. so gay Tennant is gone and now gay black african Doctor is there?
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No gay Tennant is still alive.

...when David Tennant and Ncuti Gatwa split into two, "a whole timeline bigenerated".

The writer then suggests that each previous regeneration was impacted by the bigeneration, with every 'old' Doctor now surviving his demise in a splinter timeline.

"I think all of the Doctors came back to life with their individual TARDISes, the gift of the Toymaker, and they're all out there travelling round in what I'm calling a Doctor verse.

"Sylvester McCoy woke up in a drawer, in a morgue, in San Francisco… and Jon Pertwee woke up on the floor of the laboratory," he says.
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There's no stakes or downside to regeneration now.
 
V

velk

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That.. wasn't too bad by Dr Who standards really.

"You get a happy ending ! You get a happy ending ! Everyone gets a happy ending !" is a bit disconcerting when applied to existing storylines with bittersweet endings. It's like the writers are pissing on other people's stories to mark their territory. I suppose Lucas and Spielberg both did the same thing to themselves though, so it might just be a sign of writers getting old and maudlin.

Opinion on new guy is neutral so far. On the one hand, he was entertaining to watch even if set to 'manic crazy', on the other hand his regeneration was the least serious, most ridiculous handover the series has ever done.

I think it was actually more classic Who than modern for the most part, where the explanation for a lot of stuff is 'kids would probably find that funny, get off my back'.
 
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Qhue

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So in the commentary on iPlayer they say that when the bigeneration happened that all the previous doctors similarly split off...

"The writer then suggests that each previous regeneration was impacted by the bigeneration, with every 'old' Doctor now surviving his demise in a splinter timeline.


"I think all of the Doctors came back to life with their individual TARDISes, the gift of the Toymaker, and they're all out there travelling round in what I'm calling a Doctor verse.


"Sylvester McCoy woke up in a drawer, in a morgue, in San Francisco… and Jon Pertwee woke up on the floor of the laboratory," he says."

So the Tales of the Tardis isnt just a 'what if', it's the old doctors all now enjoying their 'retirement'... but very much alive and well in this new timeline.

Insanity.
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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Chris said:
No gay Tennant is still alive.



There's no stakes or downside to regeneration now.
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There never has been. They’ve always just retcon or added a plot device to get around regeneration limits. When the show originally put the 12 limit, they probably thought that was super far off and not a concern. Like when 60s Star Trek mentioned WW3 happens in the 1990s and Trek has been trying to retcon or timey whimey that shit away for decades now
 
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Chris

Chris

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Cybsled said:
There never has been. They’ve always just retcon or added a plot device to get around regeneration limits. When the show originally put the 12 limit, they probably thought that was super far off and not a concern. Like when 60s Star Trek mentioned WW3 happens in the 1990s and Trek has been trying to retcon or timey whimey that shit away for decades now
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We always assumed the 12 limit would be broken, it was always a thing that the Time Lords could grant more.

What I mean is that The Doctor always avoided regeneration because it was a traumatic change akin to both death and birth.

Now it's just the birth part, so why wouldn't be die on purpose a bunch of times to clone himself?
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

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The show seemed to be trying to say it only happened because of the Toymaker, so they will probably just use that to explain why it doesn't happen normally

Although I suspect the real reason they did it given the RTD explanation: It lets them bring back prior Doctor actors, but explain away why they look older.
 
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lgarthy

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Man-- I gave up on the lore a long time ago... It's one of the original science fiction TV shows (if not THE original). It KNOWS it can break any rule it wants to because it IS science fiction.

Wanna bring back Tom Baker? Sure-- let's do it. Want to bring back Tennant? sure...

I think that retconning is destruction. If fans want someone returned in a science fiction show, please God DON'T work so hard at "explaining" how or why it happens. Jesus-- the Tardis has always been bigger on the inside than the outside. Just let shit go. (Besides, there have to be a dozen or so times when Baker,'s Capaldi's, Tennant's etc Doctor are amterializing within a couple of blocks and hours of each other with so many episodes/plots).

As for entertainment and story value- these last episodes were all pretty good compared to the last 15 YEARS of Doctor Who. You have to tolerate a whole lot of unbelievably crappy entertainment throughout decades of Doctor Who just to find the gems. I still think the show peaked with Tom Baker (but I bet those shows may be too dated to be watchable this century) with a second peak again with David Tennant. But I recall that Tennant's Doctor was kind of dick. And the "romance" angle with Rose... ugh.

Matt Smith has a cult following though-- I guess I can't throw him out.

See-?!?! - it's like you have to be all in and tough out a whole lot of shit to find gems (or to keep within that gross metaphor, the corn or the peanuts).

The episodes were solid and entertaining and gave fans what they wanted without being stupid. It even gave us a NPH song and dance number too!

If ANY period of Doctor Who could be this stable and entertaining, it will continue to be the world's longest running TV show. But it's like economies- you have to live through the depressions and recessions.

I think this was a solid highlight of modern Who-ology.
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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lgarthy said:
Matt Smith has a cult following though-- I guess I can't throw him out.
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Matt Smith + Amy + Rory era was my favorite. 1st season Rory was kind of a 3rd wheel, but he really grew as a companion as the show went on. Plus they had some pretty good side characters, like River Song and Strax and Lady Valestra/Jenny.
 
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Chris

Chris

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Cybsled said:
Matt Smith + Amy + Rory era was my favorite. 1st season Rory was kind of a 3rd wheel, but he really grew as a companion as the show went on. Plus they had some pretty good side characters, like River Song and Strax and Lady Valestra/Jenny.
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The only issue was that RTD did subtle season storylines well to build hype for the finale (Bad Wolf, Saxon, 4 Knocks), but Moffat was incoherent nonsense when he tried the same (still don't understand Cracks in Universe or Impossible Astronaut).

Second half of Moffat was absolute trash. Women hate Clara apparently. Capaldi and Missy were amazingly acted but the episode plots became nonsensical as well.

I do think they made a good distinction between the Tennant and Smith eras, making them different enough but not too different.
 
Chukzombi

Chukzombi

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Chris said:
The only issue was that RTD did subtle season storylines well to build hype for the finale (Bad Wolf, Saxon, 4 Knocks), but Moffat was incoherent nonsense when he tried the same (still don't understand Cracks in Universe or Impossible Astronaut).

Second half of Moffat was absolute trash. Women hate Clara apparently. Capaldi and Missy were amazingly acted but the episode plots became nonsensical as well.

I do think they made a good distinction between the Tennant and Smith eras, making them different enough but not too different.
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Moffat is was much more than Doctor Who. He was also Sherlock which gave the world that Cumberbatch fellow.
 
Grizzlebeard

Grizzlebeard

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lgarthy said:
Wanna bring back Tom Baker? Sure-- let's do it.
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I'd love that but he isn't looking like he has much time left to his next regeneration.

Tom-Baker-x-Radio-Times01-11-2320-2ad8c58.jpg
 
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Cybsled

Cybsled

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Chris said:
Capaldi and Missy were amazingly acted but the episode plots became nonsensical as well.
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Capaldi and Missy made a great duo, but ya a lot of the story plots/writing in that era were poopy. It's also too bad he really only had one episode with River as well - the Husbands of River Song had great acting between Capaldi and Kingston.
 
Chris

Chris

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Wait so if all Doctors retcon bigenerated...

Did David Tennant's metacrisis regeneration create 1 or 2 extra David Tennants? I assume it counts as 1 still?

But when he regenerated into Matt Smith, we kept that David Tennant now.

So are there three David Tennants?

Maybe one of them can gaygenerate and go fuck himself, or transgenerate into a dog or something. K-10? Ossoi Ossoi what do you think?
 
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velk

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Chukzombi said:
It was his to start. You can say he did shitty in the last season, but he was responsible for the good stuff too.
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Moffat is like the canonical example of the Peter Principle - he was a fantastic writer, but then he got promoted into positions he was increasingly worse at until he ended up with a job he was really bad at.
 
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