DOTA 2

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bayr_sl

shitlord
715
0
It's TongFu's fault that they lost I think, they just didn't have enough vision on Navis side of the map, or even their own a lot of times.

But it was still a stupid game. When Navi realized they had absolutely no chance to win unless they continue to fountain hook to stall the game for 20 minutes straight it made the game look really bad in my opinion and proves that it's not just a funny gimmick, it's ridiculously powerful even if it requires a lot of coordination. There was almost no way for TF to punish it either with the distance the rest of navi stood at and their lack of lock down initiation. A lot of shitters were saying "well they would be 4v5 after it failed" except they had nothing to push but t3s where Dendi would be anyway and it was virtually impossible to catch any other navi member out.

I wouldn't mind at all if they removed it entirely. I think it's borderline exploitative and doesn't really adds anything to the game. My feelings before the comeback was that it wasn't even all that fun to watch, it was kind of pathetic actually. Not that I expect to see it more often or something now, but it's not even something I would want to watch regularly.
 
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Simas_sl

shitlord
1,196
5
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Zaphid

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
bayr_sl said:
It's TongFu's fault that they lost I think, they just didn't have enough vision on Navis side of the map, or even their own a lot of times.

But it was still a stupid game. When Navi realized they had absolutely no chance to win unless they continue to fountain hook to stall the game for 20 minutes straight it made the game look really bad in my opinion and proves that it's not just a funny gimmick, it's ridiculously powerful even if it requires a lot of coordination. There was almost no way for TF to punish it either with the distance the rest of navi stood at and their lack of lock down initiation. A lot of shitters were saying "well they would be 4v5 after it failed" except they had nothing to push but t3s where Dendi would be anyway and it was virtually impossible to catch any other navi member out.

I wouldn't mind at all if they removed it entirely. I think it's borderline exploitative and doesn't really adds anything to the game. My feelings before the comeback was that it wasn't even all that fun to watch, it was kind of pathetic actually. Not that I expect to see it more often or something now, but it's not even something I would want to watch regularly.
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Bitch please, failed fountain hook means you have 4v5 engagement if you have the balls to fight. With Dendi back at the fountain, they could easily jump in and murder Puppey or funn1k at t3, but chinese think more farm gives you an advantage which is not true in this situation. When Pudge and Chen are firstban material and more than 1 team in the whole world can pull it off, we can talk about how OP it is.
 
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bayr_sl

shitlord
715
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But you didn't even watch the game. Tell me how many times TF could have engaged 4v5 after a failed force staff fountain hook, half of which they didnt even know occured because Dendi didnt even get a hook off if it was even in vision of a TF player. It's not about OP it's about being really stupid
 
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an accordion_sl

shitlord
2,162
8
Zaphid_sl said:
Bitch please, failed fountain hook means you have 4v5 engagement if you have the balls to fight. With Dendi back at the fountain, they could easily jump in and murder Puppey or funn1k at t3, but chinese think more farm gives you an advantage which is not true in this situation. When Pudge and Chen are firstban material and more than 1 team in the whole world can pull it off, we can talk about how OP it is.
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puppey disagrees with you
 
Cybsled

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
16,546
12,049
I had to reset my PW to log into lounge. Apparently Steam blocks you from trading for 5 days after you do that ;/
 
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gmstbfla_sl

shitlord
141
0
One thing to keep in mind is that the whole fountain hooking strat was part of the reason Navi was so far behind to begin with. Dendi and the rest of Navi basically stopped getting bigger at all because they were wasting all their time trying to set up the hooks. When faced with a tricore that are each individually farming as well as your single core, that is a bad strategy. They ended up winning due to really good team fight execution at the radiant ancients. The hook onto Gyro helped a lot, but I'm not convinced they would have even been in that precarious of a position had they just played their normal game.
 
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Taloo_sl

shitlord
742
2
Zaphid_sl said:
Bitch please, failed fountain hook means you have 4v5 engagement if you have the balls to fight. With Dendi back at the fountain, they could easily jump in and murder Puppey or funn1k at t3, but chinese think more farm gives you an advantage which is not true in this situation. When Pudge and Chen are firstban material and more than 1 team in the whole world can pull it off, we can talk about how OP it is.
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you really should either watch the game or the interview with Puppey who says the same thing I said last night. They were probably going to lose the game the way it was going. XBOCT was alc v a tri lane and doing great with the in mind. But he was not going to carry the game that way and after dealing with dendi pudge G1 Tong Fu adjusted their play leaving Dendi with just a single hook kill 20min into the game. The threat of fountain hooks completely changed the way Tong Fu played the game and gave XBOCT room to get damn farmed.

Tong Fu DID try to initiate after a failed fountain hook. They chased uphill with no vision and got decimated in the process and that's really what lost them the game. Killing doom and poping aegis gyro didn't help Navi win the game. All those hooks did was stall out the game and maintain the game state. Tong Fu was winning that game hard. They threw it all away when they got scared and let Xboct farm.

I'm a huge Navi fan but that game was entirely lost. Tong Fu threw it away. Puppey says it himself, the only way they win that game after lanes went the way they did is to keep Tong Fu on their side of the river so Xboct can farm.
 
Dandain

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
Fountain hook is controversial, but regardless of that fact, nothing prevents any other team from picking it and practicing it. Puppey said it himself for example - visage birds could be stunned in dota 1, they cannot be in dota 2. That specific change makes visage first pick viable because the birds can always be in position.
 
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Pinch_sl

shitlord
232
0
I like Puppey's attitude. "The pudge-chen fountain thing is a bit hardcore, but you take what you can get." If teams are really that scared of it they can ban it out or use it themselves. Was a lot of fun to watch. If I run into a coordinated stack that uses it against me I'd probably complain and wish for a nerf, but it's certainly entertaining to watch and like he said, there are a ton of quirky mechanics that everyone takes advantage of.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

Tranny Chaser
16,098
7,937
That was a good game...I wasn't paying attention at the start, how did that Alchemist get so far ahead in farm?
 
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niss_sl

shitlord
281
1
Fountain hook is incredibly difficult to pull off and it makes your team vulnerable afterwards. Even if its succesful it's still 4v4 and Tongfu would have been able to just bruteforce them as long as the hook wasn't something like gyro (and it rarely was). I remember watching the game and thinking about how they're not making a difference at all with these hooks and are just giving them time to farm. There's probably truth in both arguments but what's for sure is that tongfu didn't fight against it properly at all.
 
Penance

Penance

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
5,197
5,123
Missed navi vs a. Did I miss anything good? And good lord Asian dota is boring. I stand by by saying western meta is light years ahead.
 
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