DOTA 2

Dandain

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I've never been muted once, and I'm sure I talk more than the average player, too much at times I'm sure. If you play ranked as a solo, you can never be in a game with a 3 man group. Ranked solo can be 5 solos or a duo and 3 solos. Possibly both teams can have 2 duos and 1 solo. But no 3 man group queues. You will also never be solo with a 4 stack in ranked. Unranked lets any combination of stack size start games . 4-1 / 2-2-1 / 3-2 / 3-1-1 / 2-1-1-1 etc.
 

Dandain

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So I'm not super good at this game or anything (don't even play ranked), but is there any way to make the characters that aren't hyper carries viable? Playing in the normal queue allpick is just miserable because your team is never coordinated enough to end a game even close to quick enough to prevent the jugg/pl/troll/stormspirit with a token support team from just farming too long and crushing everything. I loves me some timbersaw/crystal maiden/leshrac and generally do really well early, but games inevitably go in to the 35+ minute range the enemy PA or whatever builds a bkb and that's the end of that.

Should I just pick carries outside ranked? Does it change if I move over to ranked, like, will a game actually end by 30 minutes?
You've asked a really complicated question. The short answer is this, a well played support enables wins. Cores can always throw games, even at 6k. Supports can't kill buildings alone. (Shadowshaman Refresher Aghs). If you are really dominating as a support, buy a necro 3 if you need to assist in building murdering or feel your cores won't.

If your 5 man lineup is weaker late game than the enemies 5 man lineup, all that means is that you must win faster than the enemy to close out the game. This is true when comparing any two lineups, even two lineups with 5 cores aren't necessarily lategame equivalent.
 

Sulrn

Deuces
2,159
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I can confirm I've never seen a 4 stack in ranked, but I'm fairly certain I have sat in at least 4-5 ranked matches with a 3 stack solo.

Bah. Tried looking at Dotabuff to confirm but half my ranked matches aren't showing nor does it show stacks in the display. QQ.
frown.png
 

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
<Gold Donor>
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Oh you know what, I just checked the Wiki and it says per 6.84 it can now be purchased but the proc won't activate. That's kinda why I put always in quotes originally, couldn't remember how far back that was changed. Turns out not that far!
 

Luthair

Lord Nagafen Raider
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I've never been muted once, and I'm sure I talk more than the average player, too much at times I'm sure. If you play ranked as a solo, you can never be in a game with a 3 man group. Ranked solo can be 5 solos or a duo and 3 solos. Possibly both teams can have 2 duos and 1 solo. But no 3 man group queues. You will also never be solo with a 4 stack in ranked. Unranked lets any combination of stack size start games . 4-1 / 2-2-1 / 3-2 / 3-1-1 / 2-1-1-1 etc.
I've also never been muted, which slightly surprises me. I never start flames but I'm definitely willing to fight fire with fire. Pre-reborn I used to get the "we've taken action against someone you reported" messages regularly though.

As with Sulrn I also hate stacks and wish they'd re-add the 'no stacks when alone' flag. Ranked mode doesn't really help since I almost always play drafts & random. (I know they added ranked random draft in 6.86) 4-stacks should just be banned, as the outsider you're always forced into a hard 5 and in virtually every instance will be better than 2-3 of them.

You've asked a really complicated question. The short answer is this, a well played support enables wins. Cores can always throw games, even at 6k. Supports can't kill buildings alone. (Shadowshaman Refresher Aghs). If you are really dominating as a support, buy a necro 3 if you need to assist in building murdering or feel your cores won't.

If your 5 man lineup is weaker late game than the enemies 5 man lineup, all that means is that you must win faster than the enemy to close out the game. This is true when comparing any two lineups, even two lineups with 5 cores aren't necessarily lategame equivalent.
The problem is that at lower skill levels the game is more static and the players (me included) are more greedy but less efficient about it. Its pretty unlikely as a support you'll ever be able to afford a necro3 unless you're completely rolling at which point it won't matter. In the lower tiers a midas as early as you can (without ignoring wards or a key item like blink on some heroes) is probably the only way to stay relevant.

I would agree with pushing heroes: jak, troll and ss mostly. DK seems to have mixed results in my games, he doesn't usually snowball hard enough to end the game and if your opponents have greedier heroes he'll become irrelevant.

Snowbally heroes also do well, an aggresive Tiny with an early blink tends to crush.
 

Zaphid

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With the new items, like Lens, Octarine or staples like sheep, blink, Aghs or Dagon, supports can easily stay relevant for a long time. If you can't push them, kill them.
 

Pyros

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You also get more gold nowadays than you ever did from assist gold to having more jungle shit to kill, and obviously the costs of supporting keep going lower(fucking courier is like half of what it was a few years ago nowadays or some shit).

Plus at a lower tier, it's very very unlikely your carries(aka the 4 other shmucks) are actually farming the whole map properly. In a high tier game, you can't pick too many cores cause there's only so many ressources and everything gets saturated, but at lower tiers, people are fucking shit at farming efficiently, so you as a support can actually get some farm if you're playing smart.

This is more like if you're a higher skilled support trying to climb though, if you're at your own skill level, it's unlikely you'd have the skills necessary to fully exploit this. For example, in general, last hitting with a support is harder. They mostly have god awful attack points and base damage, so you have to be more trained than say last hitting with a melee hero that has 65base damage with a quelling blade or whatever. And spamming spells is rarely that efficient until you already have some farm.

Not every support is gonna do well lategame either, but no one's forcing you to pick one like this. You can go supports that scale well with gear. Even a support like dazzle can do great things with some decent gear. You don't have to be like rushing deso, but a medallion urn dazzle than then get a right click item like AC or mjolnir or deso can definitely wreck people lategame.

Now the real question though, is how much do you value wards in low tier games. A lot of these motherfuckers will cry about no wards when they die, but even if you ward since they don't check their minimaps or don't retreat when an enemy is pinged, it's fucking useless. I think buying like one ward every 6mins is probably good enough for low tier games, just place it around roshan with the rune in vision, and you're good.
 

ronne

Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Aether lens is the best thing to ever happen to pudge. I still get wrecked trying to mid with him but people don't seem to care if i offlane in my shitty unranked matches.
 

Cybsled

Avatar of War Slayer
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Lens is pretty amazing on a lot of heroes. I found a huge difference on Ogre Magi when I had it equipped...made it easier to land stuns and the already long range on the fire dot attack is even better.
 

Genjiro

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Both of the ranged altering items are nice.

Dragon lance giving a +30% increase on auto attack range with Luna makes a huge difference in giving you that little extra cushion for safety farming or offensively to chase down someone. For the cost investment it is a really underrated item that seems like a powerhouse mid game item for certain heroes....extra range = faster farming to boot.
 

Sulrn

Deuces
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360
My only issue with lance is that you see people rushing it on every ranged carry/semi carry/DK instead of playing the match or getting core items.

Like watching a carry Silencer/Clinkz rush lance over Orchid when up against Storm/Invoker. It's good, but watching people play like it's a game changer regardless of draft is maddening.
 

Genjiro

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Its a midgame item for heroes that want/need to fight early and gain more from it than say, a drums. Same principle, but no, its not supposed to stop you from getting core items on certain heroes.
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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Sulrn, that is some shitty shit. Do you use a mic? Seriously though, hearing the voice of an actual person (that is not a absolute cunt) makes a difference if people send a report or not. Humans can be pretty shitty to faceless/voiceless shit heads on the other side of the internet... but if you use your voice, stay calm, be reasonable, and admit when you make a bad play nobody is ever going to report you, regardless of how the game goes or your K/D.
Dota 2 solo play, especially before you can play ranked is a absolute shitfest of epic proportions. Game after game after game of just inbred fucking retards doing something retarded.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
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Dota 2 solo play, especially before you can play ranked is a absolute shitfest of epic proportions. Game after game after game of just inbred fucking retards doing something retarded.
As someone with hundreds if not thousands of ranked games in dota 2, I can assure you that ranked is also an absolute shitfest of epic proportion full of retarded fucks and way too many peruvians.
 

drtyrm

Lord Nagafen Raider
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I was playing Bane support the other day with a Gyro. Advised him he should cast a spell when at full mana. "Why would I waste it retard". I got mad and sad. Things start going pretty bad so I sorta abandon the dude and go mid where TA is laning vs Invoker. I get a nightmare off from high ground to set up TA smoking him quick. A few more ganks later, TA goes total ballistic, ends the game 31-3. My new mantra is 'Find the carry'.
 

Genjiro

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Lol this game 3 Vega vs Navi

Navi has had mega creeps invading Vega base for like 30 minutes now and are going to throw this shit, they cant fight and win

Holy shit what a game
 

Zaphid

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Best support to fuck up invoker ?

I thought Nyx would be a winner, but laning him is pretty hard since he sucks before 6 and then you need to snowball to get blink in timely fashion. Shadow shaman seems sort of decent, at least you can kill towers, but his early game is even shittier, to the point I just start him with boots. Pugna could be good, but he's so fragile and has no CC, so Wex invoker just runs away. Lion seems good, decent laning, some self sustain with drain and tranquils and if you keep dying, you can get lens piece by piece instead of blink ...
 

Fight

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Yeah, I don't know. A well played Invoker does not seem to have many weaknesses.

According to Dotabuff: Omniknight, Abaddon, Lich, and Dazzle have the most success against him. I would imagine because they are resistant to burst damage and have the ability to stay in the fight against him.
 

Pyros

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Visage if you're good with it can ruin invoker, high long range damage and CC immune pets to CC him while he's doing his shit. Also fairly tanky to random bursts with the passive and such.

Lion's good if you can avoid not dying to him instantly, if he goes orchid and hit you before you hex him though you're dead so it's like a coinflip, if you hex him first chances are he's super dead with spikes into finger.

Pugna can be a fucking bitch if you hide the ward. Granted with a BKB, it's not an issue anymore and Pugna dies super quick. Still can be annoying as fuck for the Invoker and definitely forces him into a BKB first most likely.

Then yeah as mentionned the ultra defensive trio, Omni who gives a free BKB to someone who can deal with Invoker quickly, Abaddon who can dispel most of the CC and mitigate the burst easily while himself being very hard to kill including from Wex Orchid invoker and Dazzle if he's positionned far enough back so he can grave whoever gets comboed and shit.

Earth Spirit is good if you can play him, and a more fringe pick that also forces him into BKB, Skywrath mage can easily neuter an Invoker until he can bkb out of the silence(sadly not so good after that).