Dresden Files

Tred_sl said:

Or there's plenty of room to continue the universe through a new main character. There are plenty of options.

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I would guess if he wants to do another sequence of dresden books the main character would wind up being dresdens daughter.

Vlett_sl said:

Steampunk hits 9/29/15. Haven't seen any news about the new Dresdin yet, but I admit to being afraid to look. hah.

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Late september early october seems like a pretty dang good month for books with dresden and a few others I am looking for coming in that window.

Bumping this, Cinder Spire came out a week or two ago. I've been listening to the audio book at work, I like it so far

Been trying to like it, but 100 pages in and I'm just not into it. The setting is kind of cool (and has the potential to be a lot cooler), but it feels vague and in need of a good fleshing out (which has always been one of Butcher's weaker points imo). But worse, the characters feel like caricatures and I can't bring myself to have any kind of investment in what happens to them, completely unlike Dresden Files. They're just plain boring. I just feel no reason to give a crap about what's going to happen further into the book - there's no hook, no draw to create the momentum that for me to turn the page. And don't even get me started on the ridiculousness with the fucking cats. What he he thinking there?

Maybe Butcher just needs some time to and settle into the characters and setting, the way he did with Dresden Files, so I'll look back in on it from time to time. But as someone who's powered through the Dresden series (well, excluding 1 - 3 and big chunks of Ghost Story) at least 3 times and each time hit the last book itching for more, I sat down to read this earlier today and got through less 20 pages in 30 or 40 minutes before I realized there was zero immersion and put it down again.

It's... just not that interesting. If I hadn't made the mistake of an impulse purchase of a physical copy (the cover art is more gripping than any of the actual text) and had bought it on kindle, I'd ask for a refund.

Yeah, the more I've gotten into it the less I'm liking it.

Definitely prefer Dresden and Codex Alera so far, by a wide margin

alara started a bit slow as well, heck so did dresden main diff with dresden is the first person use.

i liked the book, characters -i agree- need a lot of fleshing out, but enough was there to want me to continue to read.

i believe he is working on the next dresden book now (he will alternate between writing each book series)

It read like an introductory novel where he's just trying to throw all the characters together and set up the world then add depth later. Butcher also seems to have some kind of obsession with cats.

He was working on several ideas for years between Dresden books. This one just kinda rubbed him right with the sarcastic, worship me human, idea of cats.

It is not his best work and it is in the place of a Dresden book, but I can't begrudge him a break from Dresden every now and again. At least he is not G.R.R.M.

I listen to these guys for Warmachine/Boardgame talk but the Dresden recap of books 6-10 was pretty dope. If you enjoy the series and want to hear other geeks gushing about stuff, I recommend it -Crippled System Themecast Episode 2: Dresden Files Books 6-10

Surn_sl said:

It read like an introductory novel where he's just trying to throw all the characters together and set up the world then add depth later. Butcher also seems to have some kind of obsession with cats.

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Yeah the cat thing is weird. He keeps using the word "batman" as well, so I'm guessing he wrote the first draft around the same time as he was working on Cold Days.

Does anyone else find that the characters feel really fake? They don't seem to have any concrete motivations or unique personalities or backgrounds that I can understand (150 pages in and I have no idea what half of them are even supposed to look like, as opposed to Dresden Files, where I get a very clear mental image of characters more or less instantly), almost everyone is unrealistically nice and personable except for the people we're actively supposed to dislike, the dialogue is stilted and awkward (not sure if he was trying to affect some kind of vague 19th century mannerism but couldn't be bothered going all the way). Same with the setting - he doesn't actually sit down and describe what the fuck most of the environments look like. I literally have only the vaguest idea of what anything in the book looks like because he doesn't fucking describe it. Making up weird shit only works if you describe it well enough that the readers understand what it's supposed to be.

Random subplots seem to start and stop just to serve the purpose of getting characters together - they join the guard, but we know almost nothing about what the guard does or what joining entails or what they experience upon joining except what we can logically surmise, the first 100-ish pages are mostly a buildup to a duel which is implied to be extremely important, but never ends up takes place and isn't mentioned after the disruption, etc etc.

I don't think it explains all of the problems, but I get the feeling that something went really wrong in the editing process - either it was too long and a lot of stuff was edited out, or it was really poorly written and the editor had to try stitch it into a workable novel.

Either way, I hope Butcher got it out of his system so he can pump out Peace Talks already. And I hope it isn't indicative of some slide in the quality of his work - I don't know how he went from Skin Game (not the best Dresden book, but a solid entry to the series) to this.

I think the biggest issue is, he just dropped us into this world with-for the most part- grown up chars and just tossed them into the fray.

Dresden, while grown, in the narrative explained things and since it is 'earth with magic and monsters' not much world building have to take place. Also the books 'grow' Dresden's world and char.

Alera does the typical take farmboy and make ruler bit and has him grow as the books progress explaining the world as the books progress.

Cynderspires, as of yet, did none of this, no explanation why the spires etc etc etc. With the world as I see it explained, they are either colonists from another planet/dimension or some major incident - like a comet hit- cause the spires to be built.

Still like the book and will read more. Just wish his old books would the a discount price so I can buy them ebook.

There's more than that though. You're right that Dresden being an urban fantasy helps us imagine the setting, but even in the fantastical side of things (the Nevernever, the White Council's headquarters, etc) he gives fairly vivid descriptions. Like the scene where he rescues Molly from the Fetches - I can form a vivid image of what it looks like as he steps through the portal into Winter, approaches Arctis Tor, climbs over the bones to get in, ascends the tower, walks through the garden of frozen statues, etc etc. The same with Demonreach, Chichen Itza, the Stone Table, Hade's vault, etc.

In Cinder Spires I have no fucking clue what I'm supposed to be picturing in my head. Are the buildings made of brick? Stone? Wood? In what style? How are the layers of the spires stacked into eachother? What does the spire look like from the outside? What does the outside world look like - is there anything other than mist/clouds and a vaguely referenced surface? What are the people wearing? What do they even look like (Bridget is the only main character he gives a full description of so far, that I remember)? Fuck, I still don't know what a Windlass is, and that's 1/3 of the fucking title.

It's just plain bad writing, and I suspect bad editing.

Azrayne - i agree with all of that


btw

The windlass is an apparatus for moving heavy weights.
Typically, a windlass consists of a horizontal cylinder (barrel), which is rotated by the turn of a crank or belt. A winch is affixed to one or both ends, and a cable or rope is wound around the winch, pulling a weight attached to the opposite end.

you ever watch sailboat racing, and the guys adjusting the sails by turning a crank....the crank is turning a windlass.

Azrayne_sl said:

There's more than that though. You're right that Dresden being an urban fantasy helps us imagine the setting, but even in the fantastical side of things (the Nevernever, the White Council's headquarters, etc) he gives fairly vivid descriptions. Like the scene where he rescues Molly from the Fetches - I can form a vivid image of what it looks like as he steps through the portal into Winter, approaches Arctis Tor, climbs over the bones to get in, ascends the tower, walks through the garden of frozen statues, etc etc. The same with Demonreach, Chichen Itza, the Stone Table, Hade's vault, etc.

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I've just read through the books for the first time and yeah I totally agree that this is one of the things he does really well. I've read a few authors that go really overboard with descriptive writing to the point where it puts me off reading them and he certainly doesn't do that and yet everything is very easy to visualise.

Fantastically fun series of books, my only disappointment is the whole series isn't out yet.

Skin Games would be an interesting second read with the knowledge of the turn near the end.

Devlin_sl said:

I've just read through the books for the first time and yeah I totally agree that this is one of the things he does really well. I've read a few authors that go really overboard with descriptive writing to the point where it puts me off reading them and he certainly doesn't do that and yet everything is very easy to visualise.

Fantastically fun series of books, my only disappointment is the whole series isn't out yet.

Skin Games would be an interesting second read with the knowledge of the turn near the end.

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The whole series is an interesting second read. =)

I don't normally listen to audio books but Dresden files read by James Marsters are amazing, more so after reading the books.
Minor spoiler:
Scene where Morgan tries to kill Dresden in earnest is so good in full audio.

Yeah I have read all of them, many multiple times, I had a lot of time on a treadmill for cardio rehab and I started over on the audiobooks. They are friggen awesome! (The audiobooks) It really hits on points that you might skim over and give a fantastic perspective of the book and the series as a whole. I am really really enjoying this alt look of the books.

When I read them now Harry's voice mentally is Marsters'.

Only time that's happened.

Vlett_sl said:

When I read them now Harry's voice mentally is Marsters'.

Only time that's happened.

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Just noticed Marsters came back less than a year ago to read Ghost Story, it was originally read by John Glover.