Dungeons & Dragons - New & Old

Grimsark

Grimsark

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I just received my Boxed Set, 5e Starter Set, the other day... I have not done more than open it and make sure everything is inside. I did 4 rounds of beta testing way back and figure I know enough about the gist that I am definitely going to play it. Though my circumstances have changed and it looks like if I do, it will be through something like Roll20.

I started playing back when I was 11. 2e had just hit the shelves and I had just spent all my last month of paper route money on the first four basic D&D Boxed sets (Red, Blue, Green, Black) and I actually still have them! Including the Immortals set that I picked up on Ebay over a decade ago.

So my point is that I have been into D&D (RPG's) for some time. Yeah, I know that D&D isn't perfect, but like most first loves, there is just something that keeps one coming back.

Anyone have any impressions of 5e? The boxed set in general? Plans to play on Roll20?
 
Kuriin

Kuriin

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We have 2 or 3 campaigns that I'm GMing on Pathfinder. HOWEVER, I did watch JP (itmeJP on twitch) play the starter set on 5e and they completely got raped on the final encounter. I'm not sure I like 5e though.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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The release schedule bothers me. The PHB has an MSRP of 50 fucking dollars and all the core books have a staggered release. With 4th I just bought a boxed set of the three core rulebooks day one and was good to go. Having no Monster Manual basically forces the DM to buy the first module or there won't be anything to actually play.
 
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Nehrak_sl

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I haven't followed 5e at all, so I'm here wondering exactly how much it differs (or resembles) 3.x and/or 4.x. In other words, is there a Cliff's Notes link describing 5e? I don't really want to spend hours trying to dig through wizards.com for an article that MIGHT be what I want.
 
lindz

lindz

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It doesn't resemble 4e in the least. It is a lot more similar to 3e but they have tried to streamline it.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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Nehrak_sl said:
I haven't followed 5e at all, so I'm here wondering exactly how much it differs (or resembles) 3.x and/or 4.x. In other words, is there a Cliff's Notes link describing 5e? I don't really want to spend hours trying to dig through wizards.com for an article that MIGHT be what I want.
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This is the free PDF version of basic 5E rules.
Dungeons & Dragons PDF


As others have said, it is a fusion of 1ed, 2ed, 3ed, and some new 'numbers' balance for a better power arch in preparation for future bloat.
Also, there is no NEED for a battle grid at all, like in 1st and 2ed. Though the PHB and DMG are supposed to contain optional rules to supplement more complicated play.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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Arbitrary_sl said:
The release schedule bothers me. The PHB has an MSRP of 50 fucking dollars and all the core books have a staggered release. With 4th I just bought a boxed set of the three core rulebooks day one and was good to go. Having no Monster Manual basically forces the DM to buy the first module or there won't be anything to actually play.
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From what I remember hearing on one of their many Q&A sessions, the masses actually complained that 4e came out all in one go. I am also a bit dubious regarding their justification as I think this is more a sales strategy than a customer service one. But it is what it is and like 4e, I have budgeted a monthly haul of whatever core books are released, in 1st print.
wink.png
Call me crazy.
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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You cray cray son, 3.5 for life yo! (minus the part where they neutered Sorcerers, though)
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Wizards were always better than Sorcerers.

Im still salty about not getting to play a single game of 4th.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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Gavinrad_sl said:
Wizards were always better than Sorcerers.

Im still salty about not getting to play a single game of 4th.
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Yeah they were super quick to pigeonhole 4ed. But then I have to give them props for recognizing a failed product sooner rather than later.
The few games of 4ed I did play, where VERY FUN though. I plan to steel some of the non-combat mechanics for my 5ed campaign. IMO that was were 4ed shined brightest.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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The versatility of a wizard being able to learn every single spell trumps the hell out of the extra spellcasts per day a sorcerer gets. Having played both, I can confidently say that being able to prep spells for anticipated scenarios trumps the hell out of being confined to a tiny list of known spells that you have to make as general and non-specialized as possible. Also, metamagic feats all became full round actions for sorcerers, or some such prohibitive crap.

The one and only time in all the games of DnD that I played where a sorcerer trumped a wizard was the time our entire party got dumped in the ocean. I was able to spam all my upper level spell slots into dimension door to save half the party from drowning by popping them to the beach.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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Gavinrad_sl said:
The versatility of a wizard being able to learn every single spell trumps the hell out of the extra spellcasts per day a sorcerer gets. Having played both, I can confidently say that being able to prep spells for anticipated scenarios trumps the hell out of being confined to a tiny list of known spells that you have to make as general and non-specialized as possible. Also, metamagic feats all became full round actions for sorcerers, or some such prohibitive crap.

The one and only time in all the games of DnD that I played where a sorcerer trumped a wizard was the time our entire party got dumped in the ocean. I was able to spam all my upper level spell slots into dimension door to save half the party from drowning by popping them to the beach.
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Yeah, I will agree. The only time I found Sorcerers useful as characters was for NPC's that I had tailored to very specific roles. General purpose casters are best as Wizards IMO. Unless, of course, the role play requires the synergy of a Sorcerer. In which case the limitations are more fitting.
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Hatorade

Hatorade

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Read over the free PDF, going to wait to see what Pathfinder Unchained does before judgement.
 
Void

Void

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You've just made me realize that "Unchained" added to almost anything makes it sound infinitely cooler.

Vvoid Unchained! Kool-Aid Unchained! X-Box Unchained! (would have been much better than One)

See, works with almost anything.
 
OneofOne

OneofOne

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Gavinrad_sl said:
The versatility of a wizard being able to learn every single spell trumps the hell out of the extra spellcasts per day a sorcerer gets. Having played both, I can confidently say that being able to prep spells for anticipated scenarios trumps the hell out of being confined to a tiny list of known spells that you have to make as general and non-specialized as possible. Also, metamagic feats all became full round actions for sorcerers, or some such prohibitive crap.

The one and only time in all the games of DnD that I played where a sorcerer trumped a wizard was the time our entire party got dumped in the ocean. I was able to spam all my upper level spell slots into dimension door to save half the party from drowning by popping them to the beach.
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I'll have to disagree. The thing that so differentiates them (or did, until 3.5) that you so easily disregard is the one thing I think makes Sorcerers so incredibly damn useful. Sure, if you know what you are likely to be facing with regards to obsticles or opponents, the Wizzy can pull ahead in usefulness, but I've been in too many situations where those expectations got turned on their head, and being able to belt out 12 Fireballs or 12 Dimension Doors while the Wizzy stood around going "Gee this Pass Wall and 3x Move Earth spells aren't so useful right now..." is of equal worth in my opinion. Sorcerers do suffer on the metamagic feat front, I'll give you that. Of course, once 3.5 hit and Sorcerers could no longer downcast like that, I think the class became exactly as you describe.

Not that it means much, because it all depends on your GM (though mine was harsh and dangerous as fuck heh) but the only character I've managed to hit epic with and not die was a Sorcerer.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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Wizards are the stronger overall class with a more useful better caster stat (Int) and better spell progression. The slightly better class skills and slightly better non-weapon proficiencies don't balance out getting your next level of spells one level later. The Wizard always has their new spells before you do. Forever. If the Wizard chooses a spec (which there's little reason not to do) the Wizard will have one less spell per spell level than the Sorceror. Not needing a spellbook depends on what kind of ass your DM is. Sorcs also cannot benefit from Quicken Spell without either additional source books or a sympathetic DM bending the rules so at very high levels the Wizard is casting 2 spells per turn and you are casting 1. Wizards also get free Scribe Scroll and free metamagic/item creation feats every 5 levels.

Wizards are just better.

BUT

Sorcerors do have two areas where they excel. The first is in continuous damage. If you've got spells and hit points you've got damage. Sorcs can pour it on round after round battle after battle long after the Wizard's spent the offense they decided to take for the day. The other, and I think the bigger advantage, is that a Sorc can supply tons of buffs with no prep time. You don't always know ahead of time that you need to cast Resist Elements or Fly 8 times. There are a whole bunch of buffs that are damned fucking useful to be able to lay down in multiples. If you need absurd buffing power you've got it. If not you can turn everything into nukes.

I've played both, seen many of each in action, and in a bigger party I'd always want one of each versus two of either.
 
Grimsark

Grimsark

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edit: misquote
Kuriin_sl said:
We have 2 or 3 campaigns that I'm GMing on Pathfinder. HOWEVER, I did watch JP (itmeJP on twitch) play the starter set on 5e and they completely got raped on the final encounter. I'm not sure I like 5e though.
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Thanks for mentioning that. I am listening to it while I get stuff done. Their interactions remind me of a group I ran 3ed with some time ago. Brings back memories.
 
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Phoenix Prime_sl

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I love my sorcerer. If you take the battle mage acf, and the rapid metamagic feat and meld a melee class like paladin with it that synergizes with charisma and you would have a very versatile charachter. Choose spells like true strike and wraith strike and pour on the damage. Arcane strike is a must as well. Granted sorcerers by themselves arent that great cause of limited spell selections but if you focus your spells into one are they can shine.
 
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