EQ Never

Sithro_sl said:

Whelp, this game is fucked. Shows over, guys.

Someone else is going to have to make the next good MMO.

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This.

Nova is just looking at what is the cheapest, quickest way to bring this product to market. End of story.

Convo_sl said:

Daybreak gonna break

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and i'm smiling hard as hell

Malakriss_sl said:

I can't imagine WoW 2 being anything different than current WoW in terms of appeal. If that ship sailed for you long ago they aren't going to hook you for the long haul after years of dumbing down.

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Pretty much this: which is too bad because an MMO that just fixed WoW's problems would be reasonably nifty. At one point, didn't we all agrees that WoW has the best (aka most fluid) combat engine? But things like the DPS nerf/boring itemization, gear reset, quest running all the time and too much instancing creates a stale experience. Sure original AV was a blast but even that was nerfed.

I was mulling over WoW progression servers after the discussion in whatever thread and remembered that there is a huge problem with an official WoW progression server: all gear is completely reset with each expansion, thus there's would be little reason to "go all out" to acquire top end gear in whatever was the current era. Gear can't last forever (with a few very rare exceptions), but some gear should last through to the top end of the next expansion or even beyond (e.g. EQ Epics).

Tad10, the issues you describe arent actually considered negatives in need of fixing by the majority. Blizzard fixes what they think is wrong with the game in every iteration, but that only moves it further away from what you'd want.

Mr Creed_sl said:

Tad10, the issues you describe arent actually considered negatives in need of fixing by the majority. Blizzard fixes what they think is wrong with the game in every iteration, but that only moves it further away from what you'd want.

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I'm aware of that and Blizzard is wrong - if someone every creates a WoW clone but instead of copying everything Blizz did including its mistakes, only copies the good (smooth engine, art style with longevity) and replaces the bad (hard 2 factions, gear resets, yada yada yada) with better options (soft factions, gear that lasts, yada yada) that's a WoW clone that would do very well.

I was bemused in Rift beta to see Trion had copied the hard faction system: something I don't think anyone not at Blizz ever thought was a good idea.

gogojira_sl said:

--There is not Storybricks (but there is AI, putting it back in line with all other games)

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Surely they still have StoryBricks? I mean, they must have purchased/licensed the engine, right?

tad10_sl said:

only copies the good (smooth engine, art style with longevity)

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This has NOTHING to do with 'copying Blizzard', and everything to do with just making a good game/good design decisions.

Storybricks relationship is over but they have whatever code was worked on I guess? Storybricks the company is out and I guess they are trying to do it all in house.

I was shocked to hear Jeremy Soule is still on the project.

tad10_sl said:

I'm aware of that and Blizzard is wrong - if someone every creates a WoW clone but instead of copying everything Blizz did including its mistakes, only copies the good (smooth engine, art style with longevity) and replaces the bad (hard 2 factions, gear resets, yada yada yada) with better options (soft factions, gear that lasts, yada yada) that's a WoW clone that would do very well.

I was bemused in Rift beta to see Trion had copied the hard faction system: something I don't think anyone not at Blizz ever thought was a good idea.

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Give actual good MMO designers the Blizzard engineers, and you'd see an amazing game.

Teekey_sl said:

This has NOTHING to do with 'copying Blizzard', and everything to do with just making a good game/good design decisions.

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You'd think that right? But AFAIK, no one has copied Blizz in the one thing they did absolutely perfectly - build one zone and then spend your time getting your combat engine and basic class mechanics working right in that one zone - and do not fuck around spending money on anything else.

Everybody starts going crazy with art (hi2u Sigil and 38 Studios) so they run out of money while their engineers are still working on the basic engine.

I imagine that when Daybreak was bought out, the parent company wanted to renegotiate the cost of storybricks and that they would come down enough (ie, get on their knees), so they dropped the contract.

tad10_sl said:

You'd think that right? But AFAIK, no one has copied Blizz in the one thing they did absolutely perfectly - build one zone and then spend your time getting your combat engine and basic class mechanics working right in that one zone - and do not fuck around spending money on anything else.

Everybody starts going crazy with art (hi2u Sigil and 38 Studios) so they run out of money while their engineers are still working on the basic engine.

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I can't believe a company would do it any other way. I day dream about making an mmo when I'm bored at work and that's how I would have built a game. Get a basic zone up and running and then make it fun as hell to play in that zone. Then after that build a world.

Furious_sl said:

I can't believe a company would do it any other way. I day dream about making an mmo when I'm bored at work and that's how I would have built a game. Get a basic zone up and running and then make it fun as hell to play in that zone. Then after that build a world.

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And yet look at EQNext - did they do the one zone and work on combat route? Nope. They've spent most of their time on art.

gogojira_sl said:

Maybe one of the new projects Blizzard is hiring for (the one that requires familiarity with the Warcraft style) is WoW 2. There is no fall back to EQN right now for anyone wanting something PVE focused. Like literally nothing as far as I can recall anyways, lol.

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Blizzard is smart enough to realise that making a sequel to WoW isfucking dumb. Just keep upgrading WoW every expansion (new graphics, updated gameplay, etc, etc) and it'll keep running and running.

(The Warcraft hiring is either the rumoured War/War2 HD re-releases or tie-in games for the movie...or both).

tad10_sl said:

Sure original AV was a blast but even that was nerfed.

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Ashran is the closest thing to original AV that's been added to the game in years.

It's shit andeveryonehates it.

The only people I recall actually enjoying AV were raid-geared warriors lol-1-shotting people. Is my memory hazy?

Itzena_sl said:

Blizzard is smart enough to realise that making a sequel to WoW isfucking dumb. Just keep upgrading WoW every expansion (new graphics, updated gameplay, etc, etc) and it'll keep running and running.

(The Warcraft hiring is either the rumoured War/War2 HD re-releases or tie-in games for the movie...or both).

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They've already looked into it, they've canceled their only MMO in development and in the 5 to 20 years it takes Blizzard to make a game they'll continue to bleed subs. They've capped and no amount of revamps will ever push them over where they are now, and every expansion is more and more uninviting. Expacs are temporary boosts.

Warcraft is a massive franchise, a guaranteed success and they can fuck with the formula dramatically enough to make it appealing to new markets. I'd actually have faith in Blizzard trying something new. Or they could just use the Starcraft franchise.

To think there's no market, you'd have to be fucking dumb but in this case I think that goes without saying.

The only way that storybricks was not some sort of bullshit marketing campaign is if they'd had magical proprietary systems. And who knows, they actually might. But if they do, EQN won't.

It's unfortunate. They can't even release hype. Carbine at least managed to release hype. And that game wasn't really worth the bandwith.