EQ Never

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Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,760
605
Haha ahh...just turn the quest/GPS locator off. Now the game should be more fun. Well...if we had a game made for us we would not be having this conversation bc I would be playing that and you would be playing the time/casual friendly game. Why is that so hard to understand? This jack of all trade, specialize in nothing games are lame man. Regardless if you want to admit it..
 

supertouch_sl

shitlord
1,858
3
You know one of the things that really pisses me off with this line of thought is you can turn the damn map or half the things "you people" claim make the game too easy.

But you chose not to, instead it is only good if conveniences are off for everyone because dictating how I play the damn game is far more important to you than how you play the game. Why is that?

PS EQ is dead, no one will recreate it. You can call it EQ next, EQ all over again, or EQ Here's the Same Game With a New Skin. and it will still not be EQ, or innovative, or anything you hope it to be because who ever makes it will want to sale the game to more than the handful of people that would play it.

Some day, when the cost to make a niche video game is not cost prohibited you may get the game you're looking for. Today is not that day.
hey you know all those "niche" games that have sold millions of copies and garnered critical acclaim?
 

90Proof_sl

shitlord
51
0
Nope! It's pretty factual unless you're aware of a true EQ 1 sequel that has recently released?
SOE has made it very clear that EQ Next isNOTgoing to be a sequel to EverQuest or EverQuestII. The game has been described as a "reboot" of the franchise. The process and overall thinking being compared to the way J.J. Abrams and his writing team have developed the latest Star Trek films.
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,760
605
SOE has made it very clear that EQ Next isNOTgoing to be a sequel to EverQuest or EverQuestII. The game has been described as a "reboot" of the franchise. The process and overall thinking being compared to the way J.J. Abrams and his writing team have developed the latest Star Trek films.
Yes, I'm aware as I noted it a ways back in this thread. We tend to get off topic a bit with the lack of info. That doesn't mean they cant do similar things to the orignal EQ. They still haven't defined their position on EQN. I'm expecting a game that plays like an Eve/minecraft/EQ hybrid..
 

Lipitaur_sl

shitlord
12
0
SOE has made it very clear that EQ Next isNOTgoing to be a sequel to EverQuest or EverQuestII. The game has been described as a "reboot" of the franchise. The process and overall thinking being compared to the way J.J. Abrams and his writing team have developed the latest Star Trek films.
From the information that hasn't been released, my expectation is for them to reuse all of the old story lines with pretty graphics and game play mechanics more in line with today's expectations. Given those expectations, I would absolutely give it a shot for the sheer nostalgia.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,035
You know one of the things that really pisses me off with this line of thought is you can turn the damn map or half the things "you people" claim make the game too easy.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here advocating against conveniences but this argument is deeply flawed. The reason people can't just turn their own maps off and "immerse" themselves is the same reason why people who hate mods still HAVE to use them. Because the competitive advantage in more efficient information gathering is probably the biggest advantage you can have in a reactionary game. It's like these people that say Scrolling Combat Text isn't an advantage, it's just "convenient". They've skewed convenience with "easier" and when something is easier to do, it leaves you open to *do other things*, which gives you a huge advantage.

It's the same thing with modding. It's incredible how many systems in WoW had to be made more difficult just because modding changed the way the players could see information. And because of the social dynamic of the game, everyone needed to mod if they wanted to be involved. Eventually the game became just a huge simon says, because mods translated everything into dings, whistles and emotes. And the reaction? It was like an arms race, make MORE things to react to.

Controlling how the player gets his information is an absolute imperative for any game publisher creating a "world" or social game. It's as important as the story, or the graphics, or really any other pillar of your game...Now, I love mini-maps, but the fact is, it's dumb to think it's up to "those people" to work out the information. It should be a conscious design choice by the world builder--otherwise you're left with uneven, obtuse world design where some people are blind and some have eagle-vision. That kind of disparity, if it's foreign/alien to elements within the world (IE not explained by the game design itself) will quickly lead people to either augment, or leave--either way, it destroys the world the creator is trying to portray. (Even WoW eventually had to put some brakes on).
 

etchazz

Trakanon Raider
2,707
1,056
Hyperbole much? Most people have fond memories of EQ and miss many of the things you talk about. I really miss old school pulling, open world dungeon crawls, old school enchanters, etc. As do most of us.

I think most of us also agree that some of EQ's harsh systems could be successful in a modern mmo, if the devs had the balls, intelligence and creativity to implement them. But we also recognise that the mmo landscape has evolved, not always for the best but change is inevitable. Old school EQ is gone forever, we may get some of it back but the complete and original EQ experience can not be relived... ever... (even SoE doesn't have the old code).

Mmo's change, Life changes, the world changes... but apparently some old EQ basement dwellers do not.
so you have fond memories of EQ and you miss old school pulling, open world dungeon crawls, old school enchanters, etc... but anyone who wants a newer version of EQ with those things implemented is an old EQ basement dweller? you really are a douche nozzle.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,121
3,809
You know one of the things that really pisses me off with this line of thought is you can turn the damn map or half the things "you people" claim make the game too easy.

But you chose not to, instead it is only good if conveniences are off for everyone because dictating how I play the damn game is far more important to you than how you play the game. Why is that?

PS EQ is dead, no one will recreate it. You can call it EQ next, EQ all over again, or EQ Here's the Same Game With a New Skin. and it will still not be EQ, or innovative, or anything you hope it to be because who ever makes it will want to sale the game to more than the handful of people that would play it.

Some day, when the cost to make a niche video game is not cost prohibited you may get the game you're looking for. Today is not that day.
It's not a matter of just turning a feature off. Taking a game that was designed around the use of mini map and then simply removing it will result in a very shitty experience. There will be next to no contextual clues as to what is what, as it all relies on the mini map.

Making a game from the ground up, with the an express goal to have players be lead slowly into the ever increasing wilderness until they have a firm grasp on the techniques and methods of navigation and transport, is a completely different scenario than simply closing a window.

Early EQ should not be remade. No game should be cloned, they should be iterated and improved upon, always. However, using EQ as a base there are several different aspects that can be focused on. The exploration and hostile environment aspects of EQ have been largely passed over and ignored. Most games have stupidly safe worlds that pose no real threat to the player and have no real exploration elements. This raises the question as to why they have game worlds to begin with; It's basically out of habit, and to give people pretty screenshot opportunities.

The only reason people think these ideas are "niche" ideas is because they aren't allowed to be used. Publishers have long been scared shitless of their customers. They are so fucking worried about a potentially frustrated customer that they compromise the shit out of any challenge a game might present. It's the same reason Hollywood often releases "beat you over the head obvious" movie plots, so they don't lose the audience.

They have no respect for the intelligence or integrity of their customer, so they pander to the lowest common de-numb-menator (like that?) and wind up "cleaning the stables" i.e. push shit out the door.

Can easy games be fun? Sure, but not for very long. There is always a desire to do better and become better no matter what the task. If the customers are hobbled from the start by removing the opportunity to improve, because everything starts easy and stays easy, then there isn't much long term entertainment value to be found in that product. Having high ceilings, large skill factors for certain EXCLUSIVE content, sense of danger and threats to the player and a real need to improve your skills all produce GOOD gameplay and GREAT rewards.

However, a game has to embrace those ideas from the start or not at all... there is no middle ground that will allow everyone to have everything. If you think a game that challenges it's players would not sell, you don't understand gaming.

*spoilered because it's the same old shit that's bee said 1000 times before.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
Define "True EQ1 sequel"
1. Same EQ Theme with various races to choose from, not just a few, with their own unique starting areas (Dark Elves, Ogres, Trolls, Humans, Halflings..etc)
2. First Person View (EQ was FPV, how many AAA FPV MMOs we have now?)
3. Slow Paced Combat (More Tactical/Resource Management/Strategic than Whack-A-Mole twitchy 1, 2, 3, 4 attack rotation)
4. Freedom (No Hand Holding, Not Quest Driven)
5. Faction System (You kill a creature, you get +faction towards some factions and -faction towards others)
6. Immersion (Night is dark, NO maps I miss getting lost, Sense Heading, Languages, little things like Alcohol Tolerance, food and water..etc)
7. Ability to attack ANYTHING including your trainer and city guards
8. Big Huge Non Instanced Dungeons (I miss trains, I miss being able to stumble upon a group of adventurers in my way in a dungeon)
9. Harsher Death Penalty (I miss being afraid to die)
10. The Unpredictable nature (Some spell effects have no guaranteed duration, Spells Fizzle, Misses)
11. Group Encourage (in a world of Solo-Forced content because of Quests and Storylines, I NEED grouping where it matters from a very early level)
12. No Auction Houses (I want to interact with players, AH is another distraction from player-to-player interaction... I am sick and tired of searching an in-game "website" very conveniently to find the item I have with a discount and I add it to my cart........)
13. Real Itemization, no more this generic crappy WoWish itemization (Diablo 2 actually) with VERY predictable patterns. I want odd variations of items, I want something more personalized and individually designed like Fungi Tunic, Circlets of Shadows, Efreet Boots, Jounreyman Boots, Swords of Ykesha...etc.
14. No insta-traveling unless it's community/player-interdependence based (like Druid and Wizard teleportations).

If the MMO has at least 80% of the above mentioned, it is a true EQ sequel to me. If you find an MMO like this I'll pay 2 years subscription upfront.

The reason why I don't play EQ Live is because EQ live is NOTHING like EQ Classic. It's a whole new different game, mutated.
I did play P1999 and had a blast. It was at a time where new games get released and I BUY them but don't feel motivated to play them. I know this is my personal taste and personal opinion but God Damn I know what I want. I loved SWTOR and wanted to play it (I have the collector's edition) but the reason why I couldn't motivate myself to login is this "damn... I can't handle doing a story and listening to voice over... god I wish I can just cope with the pain that it inflicts on me so I can enjoy the game itself." Story lines and quest-driven content and soloing bores me to tears.

However, I'm also looking for a game that "expands" on what EQ was (not necessary an exact copy, even though I would definitely play an exact copy with improved Interface and graphics GLADLY). But it would great if they keep the CORE philosophy of what made EQ the game it was and just improve on it, expand on it. Not to be dumped down like in World of Warcraft and every game that plays like it.
 
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Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,760
605
Good post Laura. That's a nice breakdown and I'm sure people could add more. Be great if EQN had some of that stuff.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,854
6,812
so you have fond memories of EQ and you miss old school pulling, open world dungeon crawls, old school enchanters, etc... but anyone who wants a newer version of EQ with those things implemented is an old EQ basement dweller? you really are a douche nozzle.
Lol, you were the one claiming that everyone hates EQ. I was just refuting your idiocy. If you want to join the conversation, how about you try some intelligence and throw away the hyperbole and lies.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,854
6,812
1. Same EQ Theme with various races to choose from, not just a few, with their own unique starting areas (Dark Elves, Ogres, Trolls, Humans, Halflings..etc)
2. First Person View (EQ was FPV, how many AAA FPV MMOs we have now?)
3. Slow Paced Combat (More Tactical/Resource Management/Strategic than Whack-A-Mole twitchy 1, 2, 3, 4 attack rotation)
4. Freedom (No Hand Holding, Not Quest Driven)
5. Faction System (You kill a creature, you get +faction towards some factions and -faction towards others)
6. Immersion (Night is dark, NO maps I miss getting lost, Sense Heading, Languages, little things like Alcohol Tolerance, food and water..etc)
7. Ability to attack ANYTHING including your trainer and city guards
8. Big Huge Non Instanced Dungeons (I miss trains, I miss being able to stumble upon a group of adventurers in my way in a dungeon)
9. Harsher Death Penalty (I miss being afraid to die)
10. The Unpredictable nature (Some spell effects have no guaranteed duration, Spells Fizzle, Misses)
11. Group Encourage (in a world of Solo-Forced content because of Quests and Storylines, I NEED grouping where it matters from a very early level)
12. No Auction Houses (I want to interact with players, AH is another distraction from player-to-player interaction... I am sick and tired of searching an in-game "website" very conveniently to find the item I have with a discount and I add it to my cart........)
13. Real Itemization, no more this generic crappy WoWish itemization (Diablo 2 actually) with VERY predictable patterns. I want odd variations of items, I want something more personalized and individually designed like Fungi Tunic, Circlets of Shadows, Efreet Boots, Jounreyman Boots, Swords of Ykesha...etc.
14. No insta-traveling unless it's community/player-interdependence based (like Druid and Wizard teleportations).

If the MMO has at least 80% of the above mentioned, it is a true EQ sequel to me. If you find an MMO like this I'll pay 2 years subscription upfront.

The reason why I don't play EQ Live is because EQ live is NOTHING like EQ Classic. It's a whole new different game, mutated.
I did play P1999 and had a blast. It was at a time where new games get released and I BUY them but don't feel motivated to play them. I know this is my personal taste and personal opinion but God Damn I know what I want. I loved SWTOR and wanted to play it (I have the collector's edition) but the reason why I couldn't motivate myself to login is this "damn... I can't handle doing a story and listening to voice over... god I wish I can just cope with the pain that it inflicts on me so I can enjoy the game itself." Story lines and quest-driven content and soloing bores me to tears.

However, I'm also looking for a game that "expands" on what EQ was (not necessary an exact copy, even though I would definitely play an exact copy with improved Interface and graphics GLADLY). But it would great if they keep the CORE philosophy of what made EQ the game it was and just improve on it, expand on it. Not to be dumped down like in World of Warcraft and every game that plays like it.
One of the most important things missing from your list is real danger. In EQ it was possible to lose all of your gear and levels, it was pretty hard to do but it was possible.

Real danger is almost nonexistant in modern mmos. Eve has it in a fashion, but other than that all mmo's (and even modern EQ) are tame and lame in comparison to the original EQ.
 

Expletive

Trakanon Raider
5
0
I agree with Laura as well. I am interested to see how many abilities seems reasonable to be loaded at one time, for combat to slow down a bit. For example, in EQ we had 8 spells and a hotbar with bash/slam/kick/sense heading/assist macros etc. It was important to have the proper spells ready for the situation. I.E. group is going down and we need to succor. Doh, had see invis memorized in its slot. Snare, stun, gate, etc.