EQ Never

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
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What would be some suggested methods on how to avoid the gold farmers ruining the worth of droppable items without punishing the regular users?
Well, some of it has been implimented. WoW uses kind of a system I'm going to describe below. When I talk about tiered, badges are a type of tiered economy. I just think WoW executed in a shitty way. Rather than implimenting in a broad manner, and tying new tiers into every other facet of the game, they compartmentalized it and made it so the only interaction was simple Drop-->Vendor-->Item.

First though, to figure out a system, it depends what kind of game would someone be making, themepark, sandbox? I ask because how the currency enters the economy can shift. In some games, especially hybrids, you could use a combination of tiered economies, where the currency that drops of standard mobs is not the same as the kinds of currency you get from content that is more difficult than a bot can handle (And yeah, I understand how sophisticated bots can be, so that's a tall order--but this is all combined with things like instance locks ect).

It really depends how you want to set up your game. Also, no system is going to fight off inflation forever, so you'd want to set up a system that accounts for it, or even uses it. Inflation in real economies is handled, mostly, in a generational manner. New stuff comes out, old stuff gets cheaper due to oversupply, until it finally has very little value and is discontinued (This is very general, obviously some non-durable materials/commodities break this mold) or in the case of digital "stuff" is simply priced at the cost of processing+tiny profit.

In any system designed, you'd have to understand and accept that eventually your content will be so saturated with farmed items or currency, that it has lost value. And that's when you create a new "tier", of both currency and items. This is why the type of game is important. If you're a sandbox, creation of a new tier has to go through certain channels. And this is why I'd switch games over from "difficulty" models to efficiency models--you want to zerg the new boss for epics? Fine. But you only get access once a week and if you bring 60 people for one item of loot, and a little bit of the new currency, you're really going to fall behind guilds that can do it more efficiently. (And the point of killing the bosses would work in conjunction with crafting and PvP, ect. So effeciency would be displayed organically in the rest of the world.)

(And by new tier, I don't mean obsolescence of old tiers like WoW. Rather that as old tiers decay more in value terms and less because they are outright shit compared to new stuff.)
 

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
400
1,246
I don't really see what the benefits of this are..
I try to be brief with posts if I can help it. Nobody wants to read anything more then a paragraph or three long. If I tried to explain everything then I'd just have to post a PDF design document with every post with cross reference charts and shit. To keep this one short, for mob XP to be interesting it would depend on such factors as:

1) Making sure it doesn't segregate players. This can be done by making the biggest bonuses to raw combat being the easiest to get (shitty example: mob level 1 = 10% bonus damage, mob level 20 = corpse gains ragdoll physics when you kill it and you can send the targets corpse flying across the room) or making it non-applicable to raid targets or any other host of things.

2) I'm not a big fan of raid/group caps past a certain extent. Honestly I feel if Johnny is on and wants to join it fucking let him. The only thing I hated more on raids then clearing trash was hearing 3 or 4 of my guildmates who made the time commitment to be on that night going, "Well...I guess I'll be on vent if you need me..." So even if Johnny doesn't have Ogre Slaying +10 or whatever, fucking bring him anyways.

3) You could have 2-3 tiers to it too. Like tier 1 being 'humanoid', tier 2 being 'goblin-kin' and tier 3 being 'runny eye clan' or something. The lolRP idea behind it being that you may know that humanoids have hearts generally in the chest area and you get better at hitting it as you level up your mob xp but you don't have a fucking clue where the heart is on a griffin until you've fucked one or two up. And over time you learn that runny eye clan goblins tend to hide coins in their brown eye so you now gain an average of 10% more coin off them.

And so on.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
I disagree that WoW was close to an EQ clone.. Without even breaking it down just look at how the majority of players hit max level. Very large portion were solo questing with some grouping sprinkled in. That's a complete 360 of how you hit max level in EQ. How can that be anything close?
I dunno, obviously the questing changed how people played, but I dont think the preference to solo vs dungeons has changed much. I would agree with vanilla WoW being very EQish. The path of least resistance in late kunark and certainly from velious on led through various outdoor zones for many many players. For example Overthere or Karnors fucking zone line (because sitting there is not 'doing a dungeon'). WoW was more solo because you followed a string of quest objectives instead of killing the same stuff at the same place over and over but dungeons were ignored in both to a degree. Moreso in WoW but its not like everyone in EQ was a grouping proficient dungeoneer.

Different and from a similar time frame would be EVE (which is more UO in space) or GW1 (which I dont actually consider an MMO but I guess some do). Compared to those two, WoW was an EQ remake for sure.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
3) You could have 2-3 tiers to it too. Like tier 1 being 'humanoid', tier 2 being 'goblin-kin' and tier 3 being 'runny eye clan' or something. The lolRP idea behind it being that you may know that humanoids have hearts generally in the chest area and you get better at hitting it as you level up your mob xp but you don't have a fucking clue where the heart is on a griffin until you've fucked one or two up. And over time you learn that runny eye clan goblins tend to hide coins in their brown eye so you now gain an average of 10% more coin off them.

And so on.
As a type of AA sure. Not regular generic xp.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Just realized from a Brasse tweet that EQ Keynote will probably spend thirty to forty agonizing minutes covering EQ and EQ2 before talking about EQN it's not the EQN keynote it's the EQ Franchise Keynote. Oh the humanity.

SOE's way of causing as much pain as possible.
 
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I don't see how somebody levelling an alt fast can and should bother developers. Who cares?
It had various side effects that were not too good. From the devs point of view, it meant that a person only spent a month getting to level 50 the second time, rather than several months like it should have been. So there is a potential for lost subscriptions.

But it has effects on players too, like the level 50 monk wupping everything in blackburrow to powerlevel his level 5 buddy - leaving an empty zone for the other players who wanted to play it as it should be. There's also issues with high level alts that haven't paid their dues.
 

Zacx_sl

shitlord
77
0
sorry qwerty, both those points are not really valid

1. Spending less time to get to level 50 on an alt is still time spent playing the game. People have lots of alts, and it is fun. If time to level to 50 was same as it was for your first char, then that would really really really suck. If it was so painful to level an alt people wouldn't do it, and that would probably result in more 'subscriptions lost'

2. When people powerlevel chars they don't clear the entire zone and are usually mindful of lower level chars. In fact, anyone else hunting in that zone actually benefits from the powerleveling because the high level char will most likely either buff them, or form a group with the lowbie chars so they all get powerleveled together. This is usually a lot of fun for both parties involved. At least that's what has happened in 95% instances where I've been powerleveling chars, or seen someone else powerlevel. In rare instances where people don't join in the fun the powerleveling person will let the lowbies have the zone and go somewhere else to powerlevel.
 
1,678
149
sorry qwerty, both those points are not really valid
They are valid, how much is up to you.

1. Spending less time to get to level 50 on an alt is still time spent playing the game. People have lots of alts, and it is fun. If time to level to 50 was same as it was for your first char, then that would really really really suck. If it was so painful to level an alt people wouldn't do it, and that would probably result in more 'subscriptions lost'
Maybe, maybe not.

My first character took around a year to reach level 50. Second character was bound to be faster because of all the knowledge you pick up, but I also twinked him a lot, and got some power leveling help from friends. That character went from 1-50 in about 1 month. And I only then stuck around another month or two and then quit. I did return eventually but still, that's just one example of how time was cut short. Had my second character taken longer, I would have paid more. I wouldn't have been too happy about spending another 12 months playing, but if it took me about 6 months, that still would have been more than I ended up playing at that time.

2. When people powerlevel chars they don't clear the entire zone and are usually mindful of lower level chars. In fact, anyone else hunting in that zone actually benefits from the powerleveling because the high level char will most likely either buff them, or form a group with the lowbie chars so they all get powerleveled together. This is usually a lot of fun for both parties involved.
It totally depends on who is power levelling and how they are doing it. Monks and Necros were great at it because they could fight stuff then feign, and the other person could finish the mob off. Neither of those classes could buff newbies. And there were many occasions when someone would clear entire orc camps for the power levelled friend. And it wasn't even just lower level content, I remember going to Sebilis once with my main, and we couldn't get in Disco because it was being camped all day by a guild power levelling their new tank.

When I got power levelled we spent a lot of time in places like Kedge which was out of the way of other people, but some people don't care about that.

At least that's what has happened in 95% instances where I've been powerleveling chars, or seen someone else powerlevel. In rare instances where people don't join in the fun the powerleveling person will let the lowbies have the zone and go somewhere else to powerlevel.
Again it depends. Sometimes they are nice about it, sometimes people don't give a crap. I saw plenty of the latter to know that rampant power levelling could be a nuisance.

I'm not really against it though, just giving examples of why it can be bad. I'm an altaholic so I am all about power levelling and twinking. I do think it should be limited a bit though. Again, Shards of Dalaya did a good job of it. You could twink your characters with any gear you wanted but some items that were super high level would have level recommendations, and lower level people got reduced stats. But a well twinked character was still strong. And then you couldn't heal people or interfere while they were fighting. So the twink would have to be able to kill a mob by themselves. But after the fight you can instantly heal them and buff them and off they go again. It meant that power levelled characters probably levelled about 50% faster than a normal character, rather than hundreds of percent faster if there are no restrictions at all.
 

Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
Brasse @Brasse
@braxkedren @DaveGeorgeson I can hardly wait to see the reactions. Bring your wishes AND an open mind, cause #EQNext is VERY new territory.
I realize developers are usually blowing smoke with this kind of talk, but when people start throwing around "open-mind" it makes me worry. I can't help but recall the "EQ invades Farmville" rumor.
 

DMK_sl

shitlord
1,600
0
Agreed. I'd buy and support it at least for a short time just to support the risk they took in trying something new.
 

Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
I'dbuyand support it
I see what you did there
smile.png
 

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,933
892
I realize developers are usually blowing smoke with this kind of talk, but when people start throwing around "open-mind" it makes me worry. I can't help but recall the "EQ invades Farmville" rumor.
*shrugs*you know what doesn't require approaching with an open mind? Another WoW-clone. If they're calling for open minds, it at least means it's something different and unexpected, which is what this industry desperately needs.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
*shrugs*you know what doesn't require approaching with an open mind? Another WoW-clone. If they're calling for open minds, it at least means it's something different and unexpected, which is what this industry desperately needs.
World PvP using/controlled by EVElike security zones + mini-minecraft/player studio/dungeon maker mashup as previously suggested. They're afraid PvE players will flip. Which they will.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
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113,041
World PvP using/controlled by EVElike security zones + mini-minecraft/player studio/dungeon maker mashup as previously suggested. They're afraid PvE players will flip. Which they will.
I'd honestly just love a PvE game that was based on efficiency, rather than, ultimately, difficulty. Don't get me wrong, EQ had a lot of social difficulty, but that's very different from technical proficiency. I hated my last couple years playing WoW, having to prune down people who were great to be around but ultimately mediocre technical players, so I could have players that could sufficiently move from fire in .2 seconds while still bringing X or Y DPS. The thing I miss most about non-instanced content is not the community, or the competition--but the reality that you could take anyone into your guild you wanted, the only downside what slightly less loot per person.

Diablo 3 learned this lesson already. Games about efficiency can be just as fun as games based on difficulty. I'd really love to see a Sanbox game with a really deep PvE game in it, that is based around this concept. Where PvE still has big raids, groups and tons of "tiered" content, but it's mainly designed as another source of gathering, a part of the overall dynamic of the crafting/social/PvP game--rather than a game in and of itself.

PvE would have two purposes. One is drawing in a specific kind of resource (Currency or whatever), the other would be *very* rare items, that players can only wear a certain amount of. The limit on PvE items would be to maintain markets for crafted items, and because you'd want getting a strong PvE item to be an exception, maybe not a rule. (So you could keep "items" as actual, rare, treasures, rather than rewards for work.)