EQ TLP - Mischief (Free Trade / Random Loot)

Arbitrary · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
Can we just all agree to stop putting selos faceless making it to live in the same fucking category of accomplishments as OGC making it to live? I'm sorry. It's not. It's actually disgusting and disrespectful that people even try to boast that. Hey, go look at manglerprogress.com, that entire guild list is in the same category. They have all lasted just as long as selos faceless has. There is no expansion too hard to beat, so the accomplishment of making it to live on a TLP is literally the AMOUNT OF TIME required to lead a guild long enough to do so. Lol the fact that I constantly see this brought up as an achievement in the same ranks as OGC and that it was just pointed out to me that it's in the faceless recruitment post blew my mind. This is on par with faceless claiming the fastest naggy ever on their website when come to find out it was a multi-guild raid led by Dima who wasn't in faceless lol.

Getting a pretty interesting conversation going and out comes Captain Disingenuous to steer things in to a fucking wall. Yes yes disgusting and disrespectful I'll find you a feinting couch.

Cukernaut · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
100%, and this is why we went to DZ. Our options were:

1. Stay and lose DPS races
Cuk's characterization of the situation was manifestly flawed.

Cukernaut · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
Do you mean the practice session where me and kith were there with you doing the skips for hours on test? Like seriously dude, I hope you're just misremembering, because otherwise you are blatantly lying.

You were given both a slow and a fast horse, I'm not really sure what your complaint is, you didn't succeed with either, and then you bailed. There is 0 chance that if I had known you needed a face horse I would have "ignored your begging for horse money" for days. That just wasn't reality. We gave you a horse you said should be fine, and very shortly after you said it wasn't working right Kith gave you a rhino--I will 100% say he should have just given you a rhino immediately. But I had zero knowledge he had one, if I had thought we needed a rhino before, I would've bought one out of my own pocket for krono and given it to you. I'm not saying no mistakes were made, but there is no chance you had been telling us for days you needed a specific horse and we told you no or ignored you. We gave you the mount you needed, that's the real story. We had test runs on test server, you were there and so were me and kith, it's crazy to me you're claiming I wasn't there.

I was not given a rhino - that’s pretty easy to check to.

I don’t have any beef with you sieger - I think you May be misremembering some things too. The reality is - it is what it is. We all tried our best in the fashion of what we thought best was and you guys made some decisions that i disagreed with.
As much as i hate to say it you don’t walk away from an open invitation for a winner takes all dps race of the final zone for luclin and “win”- you have to plan for those things and we didn’t do what it takes to be prepared and that’s why in my opinion Amtrak earned their badges of being the “real Michael Jordan’s of eq”

Atabishi · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
I did not think our odds were amazingly strong, but staying in OW like Cuk wanted to do would have served zero purpose. If by some magic us training you as a guild for 5 hours would have won the server for us, fuck yes I would have done it and eaten my suspension happily. The reality is all it would have done is made it so no one could do OW and then in a few hours, you guys could go back to your mostly finished DZ and win. Cuk's characterization of the situation was manifestly flawed.

What was stopping you guys from just following them, losing every dps race but when they get on the last warder mob you click in all your FDers in to atens room (you can can get all the way almost to aten with the warders up if you have fd) and then have your raid prep'd to click in before them? the fders could rush aten with discs up soon as last raid mob dies and give enough time for you to rush tanks in. The aten situation seems more like it would be a stale mate than a lost dps race. It wouldn't be ideal for amtrak to kill the last warder boss if you guys are there waiting. However if they did kill it, you could have still outsmarted them and won the race even with inferior dps.

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
Can we just all agree to stop putting selos faceless making it to live in the same fucking category of accomplishments as OGC making it to live? I'm sorry. It's not. It's actually disgusting and disrespectful that people even try to boast that. Hey, go look at manglerprogress.com, that entire guild list is in the same category. They have all lasted just as long as selos faceless has. There is no expansion too hard to beat, so the accomplishment of making it to live on a TLP is literally the AMOUNT OF TIME required to lead a guild long enough to do so. Lol the fact that I constantly see this brought up as an achievement in the same ranks as OGC and that it was just pointed out to me that it's in the faceless recruitment post blew my mind. This is on par with faceless claiming the fastest naggy ever on their website when come to find out it was a multi-guild raid led by Dima who wasn't in faceless lol.

I've always said that Phinny guilds faced a very different challenge from us. Keeping interest when you only raid 1-2 days a week (which is the reality on a regular TLP after GoD) for 5 years is non-trivial. Selo appealed to people that want to play EQ almost every day. The same cast of characters that did Selo with me, likely would never have made it 5 years on Phinny. Our "worst months" on Selo were actually the months where lower amounts of content gave us less to do, we'd have people log out, lose interest etc.

I assume you thought I'd start foaming at the mouth over your childish troll, but I've actually said many times that I doubt my Selo guild could have done what Phinny guilds did. I'm also not sure they could do what we did--because the people who finished Phinny were people who got comfortable playing EQ a lot less. But maybe they could have, I don't really know, I have 0 information on which to base that.

Now if I wanted to get real mean I'd point out that OGC never actually reached live, because they quit raiding as a guild at the end of TBL and started doing joint raids with Resolute (something we never did on Selo.) But I haven't felt the need to randomly attack OGC like you seem to feel a need to do with other guilds.

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
What was stopping you guys from just following them, losing every dps race but when they get on the last warder mob you click in all your FDers in to atens room (you can can get all the way almost to aten with the warders up if you have fd) and then have your raid prep'd to click in before them? the fders could rush aten with discs up soon as last raid mob dies and give enough time for you to rush tanks in. The aten situation seems more like it would be a stale mate than a lost dps race. It wouldn't be ideal for amtrak to kill the last warder boss if you guys are there waiting. However if they did kill it, you could have still outsmarted them and won the race even with inferior dps.

Maybe that strategy would have worked, hard to say. We would not have known any of that was possible at the time. Like I said, zero of us had ever seen warder VT.

Something Amtrak kinda likes to not mention is none of their core had either. They actually got trained up heavily by Mabbu's guild on Coirnav, and Mabbu was integral to their VT. This is something that they kinda retconned out of memory because of the nastiness between them and Mabbu afterward where he doxxed Grisvok and etc. We had no Coirnav guild helping us. if I had been rolling around on Warder Active servers for 3 years before Selo launched I'm sure nothing I said earlier would have mattered. Selo was the first post-Coirnav TLP to launch with Warders alive, and none of our core raiders or officers played on Coirnav.

Edit: Also keep in mind, Amtrak didn't do a full clear in to AHR room, they left all the warders alive that you COULD leave alive, they actually slightly messed up fighting AHR like that just the night before in their DZ and wiped. We did not have a force that was used to, or familiar with, how to move around in there with warders alive.

Cukernaut · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
What was stopping you guys from just following them, losing every dps race but when they get on the last warder mob you click in all your FDers in to atens room (you can can get all the way almost to aten with the warders up if you have fd) and then have your raid prep'd to click in before them? the fders could rush aten with discs up soon as last raid mob dies and give enough time for you to rush tanks in. The aten situation seems more like it would be a stale mate than a lost dps race. It wouldn't be ideal for amtrak to kill the last warder boss if you guys are there waiting. However if they did kill it, you could have still outsmarted them and won the race even with inferior dps.

my mind is still boggled that running away from an open world invitation to race still somehow gets projected on me- by last post summarizes the outcome best though

“
I don’t have any beef with you sieger - I think you May be misremembering some things too. The reality is - it is what it is. We all tried our best in the fashion of what we thought best was and you guys made some decisions that i disagreed with.
As much as i hate to say it you don’t walk away from an open invitation for a winner takes all dps race of the final zone for luclin and “win”- you have to plan for those things and we didn’t do what it takes to be prepared and that’s why in my opinion Amtrak earned their badges of being the “real Michael Jordan’s of eq””

Sterling · Jul 11, 2021

Cupie12 said:
Nah, instance timed out at 4% after we recovered a real bad aten pull. Went into open world and killed it. Also cuk you couldve done the run with a bard following you outside the walls. Thats what I did with bling, I didnt have a pony yet.

It wasn't 4 percent, it was like 30-40 percent, but we had lost some people early and ended up stabilizing with shit dps.

Atabishi · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
I've always said that Phinny guilds faced a very different challenge from us. Keeping interest when you only raid 1-2 days a week (which is the reality on a regular TLP after GoD) for 5 years is non-trivial. Selo appealed to people that want to play EQ almost every day. The same cast of characters that did Selo with me, likely would never have made it 5 years on Phinny. Our "worst months" on Selo were actually the months where lower amounts of content gave us less to do, we'd have people log out, lose interest etc.

I assume you thought I'd start foaming at the mouth over your childish troll, but I've actually said many times that I doubt my Selo guild could have done what Phinny guilds did. I'm also not sure they could do what we did--because the people who finished Phinny were people who got comfortable playing EQ a lot less. But maybe they could have, I don't really know, I have 0 information on which to base that.

Now if I wanted to get real mean I'd point out that OGC never actually reached live, because they quit raiding as a guild at the end of TBL and started doing joint raids with Resolute (something we never did on Selo.) But I haven't felt the need to randomly attack OGC like you seem to feel a need to do with other guilds.

I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out the fact that running a guild for 2 years is not even in the same planet of comparison from running a guild 5+ years. I'm pointing out that it's not even in the same planet of achievements. So I think it's completely retarded to even compare the two.

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Cukernaut said:
I was not given a rhino - that’s pretty easy to check to.

I don’t have any beef with you sieger - I think you May be misremembering some things too. The reality is - it is what it is. We all tried our best in the fashion of what we thought best was and you guys made some decisions that i disagreed with.
As much as i hate to say it you don’t walk away from an open invitation for a winner takes all dps race of the final zone for luclin and “win”- you have to plan for those things and we didn’t do what it takes to be prepared and that’s why in my opinion Amtrak earned their badges of being the “real Michael Jordan’s of eq”

This goes back to maybe you just don't remember, because you were 100% given a rhino by Kith. I actually don't think you would just lie about something so black and white, so I'm going to assume with all the drama maybe you just forgot. I will note that your constant AoS dick sucking (by the way, you were never more than a little beta whipping boy for them, not part of their inner circle) had a ton of people assuming the reason you played so badly in VT was because you were a deliberate plant.

I did not believe that in 2019. To be honest given your posts here I am starting to think maybe it's true, who knows. You may want to start claiming it was true, because it's less embarrassing than how you actually performed for us on Selo.

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
I'm not attacking you. I'm pointing out the fact that running a guild for 2 years is not even in the same planet of comparison from running a guild 5+ years. I'm pointing out that it's not even in the same planet of achievements. So I think it's completely retarded to even compare the two.

No one compared them other than you.

Atabishi · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
No one compared them other than you.

ROFL thats a big yikes right there.

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Cukernaut said:
my mind is still boggled that running away from an open world invitation to race still somehow gets projected on me- by last post summarizes the outcome best though

“
I don’t have any beef with you sieger - I think you May be misremembering some things too. The reality is - it is what it is. We all tried our best in the fashion of what we thought best was and you guys made some decisions that i disagreed with.
As much as i hate to say it you don’t walk away from an open invitation for a winner takes all dps race of the final zone for luclin and “win”- you have to plan for those things and we didn’t do what it takes to be prepared and that’s why in my opinion Amtrak earned their badges of being the “real Michael Jordan’s of eq””

Like I said, your memory is plain not accurate here. We clearly had less DPS than them, and they had a pre-cleared DZ that reopened in a few hours. Staying in open world was not the best chance to win, doing a DZ was. It was not a great chance because we were frankly out positioned to this point.

At the end of the day cuk, you've been a guy that's ran your mouth about how hardcore you are for years. As far as I can tell you did a few expansions with AOS as an enchanter, not even a serious raid class, you had like 20% RA with us on Agnarr for a little while, and you had a bad Selo launch with us where you literally talked nonstop on Discord for 3 months leading up to launch about how hardcore you were and then you ran out of the raid crying because your wife got mad at you. You've done nothing in EQ since then aside from level a few statics. I don't know who the Michael Jordan of EQ are, I'm pretty sure Michael Jordan wouldn't play a game like EQ. But I do know you are literally a never-been who runs his mouth a lot about things he has never been a part of and the one time you were actually important you failed. You can cry back and forth about whatever details you want to misremember to make your ego feel better for as long as you want.

Cukernaut · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
This goes back to maybe you just don't remember, because you were 100% given a rhino by Kith. I actually don't think you would just lie about something so black and white, so I'm going to assume with all the drama maybe you just forgot. I will note that your constant AoS dick sucking (by the way, you were never more than a little beta whipping boy for them, not part of their inner circle) had a ton of people assuming the reason you played so badly in VT was because you were a deliberate plant.

I did not believe that in 2019. To be honest given your posts here I am starting to think maybe it's true, who knows. You may want to start claiming it was true, because it's less embarrassing than how you actually performed for us on Selo.

let’s take that through a few steps

1. no rhino sorry buddy - that would have solved a lot of issues - maybe you gave to someone else. I love that your still projecting despite me trying to get multiple people up on the skip etc
2. I wasn’t part of any inner circle. Why the do you think I joined you guys? Would I have done that if I was part of their inner circle? Do you really think that all that I put in would make me look like a plant?
3. moving into really baseless accusation territory, or for that matter anyone but yourself, why don’t you ask the crowd here?

I think you are making yourself look pretty bad here with a sling of personal attacks trying to justify why we as a guild got our asses handed to us

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Cukernaut said:
let’s take that through a few steps

1. no rhino sorry buddy - that would have solved a lot of issues - maybe you gave to someone else. I love that your still projecting despite me trying to get multiple people up on the skip etc
2. I wasn’t part of any inner circle. Why the do you think I joined you guys? Would I have done that if I was part of their inner circle? Do you really think that all that I put in would make me look like a plant?
3. moving into really baseless accusation territory, or for that matter anyone but yourself, why don’t you ask the crowd here?

I've said my peace bud, you're saying factually different things than me. I know what the actual truth was, you can believe whatever you want. My point stands that you're just a loud mouth who talks a big EQ game but has never played a big EQ game. This highlights my point that the people foaming at the mouth about OW on these forums tend to be the people who have very minimal to no actual play time in these eras of EQ. Bishi spams a bunch of nonsense on the forums and about beating up special forces, but at least he's actually done something. All I've ever seen you do is talk. I'm sorry if I bruised the fake persona of TLP bad ass you have always tried to create on these forums by exposing that you singularly failed to do VT skips due to poor play, and then bailed on the raid.

Cukernaut · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
Like I said, your memory is plain not accurate here. We clearly had less DPS than them, and they had a pre-cleared DZ that reopened in a few hours. Staying in open world was not the best chance to win, doing a DZ was. It was not a great chance because we were frankly out positioned to this point.

At the end of the day cuk, you've been a guy that's ran your mouth about how hardcore you are for years. As far as I can tell you did a few expansions with AOS as an enchanter, not even a serious raid class, you had like 20% RA with us on Agnarr for a little while, and you had a bad Selo launch with us where you literally talked nonstop on Discord for 3 months leading up to launch about how hardcore you were and then you ran out of the raid crying because your wife got mad at you. You've done nothing in EQ since then aside from level a few statics. I don't know who the Michael Jordan of EQ are, I'm pretty sure Michael Jordan wouldn't play a game like EQ. But I do know you are literally a never-been who runs his mouth a lot about things he has never been a part of and the one time you were actually important you failed. You can cry back and forth about whatever details you want to misremember to make your ego feel better for as long as you want.

this is really good stuff here. I came to selos for launch specifically and told you that. Trying to project my length of play time with you guys on that project as some negative bullshit is laughable.

Rajaah · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
Can we just all agree to stop putting selos faceless making it to live in the same fucking category of accomplishments as OGC making it to live? I'm sorry. It's not. It's actually disgusting and disrespectful that people even try to boast that. Hey, go look at manglerprogress.com, that entire guild list is in the same category. They have all lasted just as long as selos faceless has. There is no expansion too hard to beat, so the accomplishment of making it to live on a TLP is literally the AMOUNT OF TIME required to lead a guild long enough to do so. Lol the fact that I constantly see this brought up as an achievement in the same ranks as OGC and that it was just pointed out to me that it's in the faceless recruitment post blew my mind. This is on par with faceless claiming the fastest naggy ever on their website when come to find out it was a multi-guild raid led by Dima who wasn't in faceless lol.

I agree with this somewhat. No disrespect to Selo folks, but Phinny had to last a lot longer to reach live. OGC has also beaten every expansion in-era, so it isn't simply a matter of waiting out the clock. Grand Slam achievement in Underfoot, Unfettered Emerald Excellence downed in-era. Had more time than Selo so it's an apples to oranges comparison in a lot of ways. However, having been there and seen the attrition firsthand, OGC making it to live was a mind-boggling accomplishment. Dima and other OGC leadership deserve a mountain of credit for what they added to that server over the years.

Arbitrary · Jul 11, 2021

Atabishi said:
ROFL thats a big yikes right there.

Cukernaut · Jul 11, 2021

Sieger said:
I've said my peace bud, you're saying factually different things than me. I know what the actual truth was, you can believe whatever you want. My point stands that you're just a loud mouth who talks a big EQ game but has never played a big EQ game. This highlights my point that the people foaming at the mouth about OW on these forums tend to be the people who have very minimal to no actual play time in these eras of EQ. Bishi spams a bunch of nonsense on the forums and about beating up special forces, but at least he's actually done something. All I've ever seen you do is talk. I'm sorry if I bruised the fake persona of TLP bad ass you have always tried to create on these forums by exposing that you singularly failed to do VT skips due to poor play, and then bailed on the raid.

I’m fine with you feeling that you said your piece. I don’t have much more too add either. Your projecting an entire guilds failure in a race on one person after we crawled away from an open world challenge.

bravo - screams beta- and your attitude towards it is just showing your own ass. I’ve always been up front with people about my play- now your just trying to divert

Sieger · Jul 11, 2021

Rajaah said:
I agree with this. No disrespect to Selo folks, but Phinny had to last a lot longer to reach live. OGC has also beaten every expansion in-era, so it isn't simply a matter of waiting out the clock. Grand Slam achievement in Underfoot, Unfettered Emerald Excellence downed in-era. Had more time than Selo so it's an apples to oranges comparison in a lot of ways. However, having been there and seen the attrition firsthand, OGC making it to live was a mind-boggling accomplishment. Dima and other OGC leadership deserve a mountain of credit for what they added to that server over the years.

That isn't accurate Rajaah. The actual way progression boards (like the one ran by Beimeth for live) work is join raids do not count. You guys beat Mearatas in a joint raid. So no, OGC did not beat TBL in era. "Phinny Joint Raids" did. As someone who has actually done Mearatas, I literally am not saying it wasn't an accomplishment, but it was not an OGC guild accomplishment, it was a Phinny server accomplishment.

I 100% agree Dima and OGC did a great job, only Atabishi would attempt to denigrate guilds like this. I'm just pointing out (and this was even posted on official forums by you guys) your Unfettered Emerald Excellence kill, the last day of TBL, was in a joint raid. Subsequent kills of it, if any, would not have been in era. I would note that Phinny was a much higher population server than Selo with far more guilds to absorb than Selo, which was a form of advantage we did not enjoy. We were down to around 30 raiders by the time we hit ToV.

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