Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
- 16,040
- 19,500
You put way too much faith in an industry that proves time and time again how incompetent they all are
EQ TLP - Oakwynd (Evolving Ruleset Progression Server)
- Thread starter Zaide
- Start date
You put way too much faith in an industry that proves time and time again how incompetent they all are
Eh I mean the gaming industry sees a quarter of a trillion in revenue a year, they're obviously competent enough to make money.
As much shit as people give DBG, they did give us TLP's and create a proof of concept that other games have followed/starting to follow in terms of releasing official progression/classic servers. They've also at least historically been good enough to continue to grow the TLP audience over the last 17 years since the initial launch of Combine and Sleeper. Has every TLP been a hit? No, naturally you're going to have hits and misses, but if you just look at it from an overall perspective instead of a vacuum, they've made enough competent changes and server rulesets over the last 17 years that has grown the EQ TLP audience to the size it is today.
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 6,001
- 15,473
It doesn't really matter because the data isn't looking at an eq tlp environment where the twinked, powerleveled, andor rmted accounts are often secondary ones while the buyer did in fact physically play out their main. It also isn't really looking at the issue the tlp vanilla to pop recyclers have that may make them like fte, which is that people refuse to group with them, and they believe powerleveled alts and boxes are the reason. Those folks that oakwynd is likely to target, its tiny target audience, would frankly prefer if powerlevelers all quit.
- 1
Unintended consequence of this ruleset that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere but has been in the back of my mind.
If you think random PuGs were bad previously, wait until you meet all the shitters that are leveling characters for no other reason than to get a 10% bonus for their "main".
But If you only box, or group with a small circle of friends/guildies you won't know what I'm talking about.
If you think random PuGs were bad previously, wait until you meet all the shitters that are leveling characters for no other reason than to get a 10% bonus for their "main".
But If you only box, or group with a small circle of friends/guildies you won't know what I'm talking about.
- 1
Speaking of unintended consequences that I haven't seen mentioned much regarding FTE - sure yes you can lock stuff indefinitely and other such abuses - you can now just drag CH NPCs into/onto groups/raid targets and they have no recourse to kill the mob or prevent the CH from landing. So certain raid targets could be griefed with multiple cleric mobs that just happen to be engaged nearby and are spamming CH.
Overall I think this whole FTE thing just hurts the casual player more than it helps them. Friends cant help Plvl you anymore. Guildies cant help you catch up. You're just stuck Pugging (hoping PuGs exist) or solo/molo. All for them to stick it to the evil PLvlers in zones they never go to and the imagined surplus of trains on them.
Overall I think this whole FTE thing just hurts the casual player more than it helps them. Friends cant help Plvl you anymore. Guildies cant help you catch up. You're just stuck Pugging (hoping PuGs exist) or solo/molo. All for them to stick it to the evil PLvlers in zones they never go to and the imagined surplus of trains on them.
- 1
- 1
Lambourne
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 2,720
- 6,538
People clamoring for a time when you could group at any level are just wishing for a time that doesn't exist anymore because it's mostly not an issue of game mechanics, it's one of demographics. EQ was steadily growing over the first few years as new players kept joining so there was a constant influx of characters leveling up. TLPs stop receiving new players in meaningful numbers after a months already, so the PUG leveling game dies off after it.
Even classic WoW servers (which have a multitude of the population of any EQ TLP) suffer from this effect, with low level dungeons becoming harder and harder to find a group for.
Even classic WoW servers (which have a multitude of the population of any EQ TLP) suffer from this effect, with low level dungeons becoming harder and harder to find a group for.
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
- 45,434
- 73,508
I agree with your point about them maybe wanting to go after plvling as a way to increase player retention. The whole server seems retention and leveling focused for a casual market, given that's what all three attributes are based around. I think their attempts are pretty misguided though, because they are unlikely to confer the benefits they want. They'd benefit much more from engaging with players, or more in tune players.
I also agree they should more involved discourse with players on why they are making decisions, but given how apparently poor those decisions are I don't blame them for choosing to appear random and misguided instead of incompetent.
They've known about stuff like this since 2008 when WoW EMU server first started getting popular. The servers that just gave people max level and a full set of gear had horrible player retention, the ones that offer more retail like experience rates and game had high player retention.
If you want an EQ TLP example of this just look at P99 retention rates vs TLP retention rates. TLPs get like 5x the population of P99 but they have much worse retention rates.
Oakwynd gonna have problems with it's unlock scheduled though. Most of the people that this version of EQ appeals to don't have 20+ hours a week to play the game and they're gonna want slower unlocks not the sped up timeline that Oakwynd offers. Sped up timelines appeal to people that rush to endgame and consume all the current era content quickly.
Last edited:
- 1
yerm
Golden Baronet of the Realm
- 6,001
- 15,473
I'm talking about alts. Not mains. If your main is leveled in a statistically retention-prone way, it just doesn't really matter if you grind, plvl, or just buy your 3rd ranger. The problem with these statistics being bandied around is that they apply to a person's main (or maybe raid alts) while tons of the oog leveling stuff is done for boxed alts.
Yeah it doesn't actually matter. It's more about the environment/community that the rulesets fosters. I think you're probably an exception to the rule which is probably why you don't wanna accept this.
RobXIII
Urinal Cake Consumption King
- 3,677
- 1,818
In EQ2 maybe 0.0005% of the population would turn on the option to encounter lock their groups because it was a shite mechanic there, and it's not even a competition heavy game.
I plan on getting a lot of entertainment from this new server, but only forumside
I plan on getting a lot of entertainment from this new server, but only forumside
I always wished they would have done a self-paced progression server where guilds progress at their own rate. All expansions are open upon launch but in order to access the next expansion your guild had to be flagged for it by fully completing the previous one. If you were in a guild when they obtained an expansion flag, you retained it on your character permanently but you could also join a guild at any expansion and receive temporary flag access while inside that guild. Items would be free trade but expansion locked, so you could only equip up to the expansion you or your guild was flagged up to. Raid mobs only allow up to a certain max level to engage with it to prevent high level far ahead players from speed running lower guilds through expansions. Just always thought a server like that would be really fun. Fun for people wanting to race/speed run, and fun for casuals who want to go at their own pace and choose when to advance. Would also have replay-ability if people wanted to put guilds together to restart and speed run up to a certain expansion, see which guild could do it the fastest.
I'd be pissed though if they ever did launch a server like that now since I can't really play in a raid capacity anymore, considering I'm 11 hours ahead of EST.
I'd be pissed though if they ever did launch a server like that now since I can't really play in a raid capacity anymore, considering I'm 11 hours ahead of EST.
- 2
Rajaah
Honorable Member
- 11,317
- 14,996
This has a lot of potential for longevity, and if they were gonna do an "experimental mechanics" server I'd much rather see it be something like this.
Perhaps add an "expansion flag dude" to Commonlands tunnel who you have to talk to after beating any particular final boss in order to chronicle it and get the next expansion access. That way guilds could stay in one expansion indefinitely if they wanted to, while also being free to slay the final boss.
Korzax Stonehammer
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 732
- 397
I think they want to stop all PLing just so they can sell level up potions. They have 2 already for people to catch up. Maybe have one for 1-50 for $39.99. And don't stop there. Sell people ten 40 slots bags for $199.99. I think they are starting to realize that people are willing to spend money for convenience. And like always, they want a piece of the action. Need that all important kill to advance. Just buy it. fuck, $99 for a full pop backflag. Why not.
Yeah there is a lot of different things you could do like that when it comes to that type of server. It also wouldn't have to be true-box. If you wanted to progress through all the expansions with just a small group of friends running an entire raid, it's not going to really have a negative effect on anyone else.
I don't think they're paid enough or have the freedom enough from their superiors to actually want or be allowed to do this.
I'd love to hear a 1 hour video on why encounter locking was a good idea, but realistically, the answer will likely be "We did this in EQ2 and it worked there, we wanted to do this so there is consistency between those products" and it'll be a 30 second video.
There isn't much thought put into that because they likely aren't going to risk changing too much about their product as it's risky for YTY financials. Any sort of video update they'd make would be cosmically boring because they aren't allowed to innovate and the reasons for adding content or features are quite shallow.
moonarchia
The Scientific Shitlord
- 21,548
- 39,220
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
- 16,040
- 19,500
Not sure why you think that's relevant to MMOs which make up only a small fraction of that, but it's fallacious argument anyways.
MMOs fail more than they succeed through idiotic decisions. Most of the ones still going are 10+ years old and on life support.
But, sure, mobile game and console revenues are strong proof that EQ developers know what they're doing.
YttriumF
The Karenist Karen
- 292
- -840
I agree with the demographics argument to a point, but I feel that if a player is complaining about not being able to find a group on any current TLP ... then that particular player owns about 90% of that problem. Game mechanics cannot replace poor social skills.
Yes ... you will have to sift through a few folks until find people who match your playstyle. Yes ... it's going to be toxic until the new mechanics get tuned.
I have a small handful of quests I like to do in classic ... but I think the key strategy with this server is going to be "... YOU BETTER GET THERE FIRST!"