Everquest Legends

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,323
3,914
Of course they went with classic models.

They're flat fucking textures easy as hell to make new cash shop items that are just literal flat textures that wrap around a model. Hell you could probably ask an AI to make a texture for a classic Everquest model and it would be able to vomit one out quick.

Luclin Model animations were ass compared to the vanilla but the armor was so much better looking, but it was also layered armor. If you wore plate armor you had chain armor under the plate, you could see it when a corpse despawned the plate armor would despawn first. If you were wearing leather or Chain when your body despawns your character becomes naked but not textured so they're just skin colored.

Luclin models require a hell of a lot more effort to create cosmetics for.
Modern PBR pipeline (how they'd likely create new textures) make the difference largely nil between the two styles. Both will require modeling a high-poly version of the armor to bake down to the low-poly model, the difference being Luclin models would probably be best with having that baked down to a low poly armor model vs directly onto the character itself. You're talking about an extra hour or two tops per model depending on the tools you're using, and I'm retarded with this stuff, they hopefully have an actual professional so would be more efficient.

It's a difference but not a major one honestly. Far more likely they just don't want to do it twice so chose the more popular classic models to align with the older art style. That's how I'd do it too.
 

B_Mizzle

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
9,207
19,908
Modern PBR pipeline (how they'd likely create new textures) make the difference largely nil between the two styles. Both will require modeling a high-poly version of the armor to bake down to the low-poly model, the difference being Luclin models would probably be best with having that baked down to a low poly armor model vs directly onto the character itself. You're talking about an extra hour or two tops per model depending on the tools you're using, and I'm retarded with this stuff, they hopefully have an actual professional so would be more efficient.

It's a difference but not a major one honestly. Far more likely they just don't want to do it twice so chose the more popular classic models to align with the older art style. That's how I'd do it too.

A dude taking a bunch of estrogen and having to dilate every 2 hours probably isnt going to be efficient at much of anything.
 
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MazeEq

Lord Nagafen Raider
247
180
Coming from someone who has poured countless hours into the beta, essentially had the best geared character in-game, and was in the first wave.

This game is going to fail. Not because of engineering bandwidth, but because the development team doesn't have a grip on reality. They want to make a "multi-class power fantasy" game yet every turn and update they bring that power down further and further.

At this point, it's just a game where you can cast more spells.

Nothing is going to work, they're not making July deadline, hell, you can't even group to level up, because they nerfed group exp into the ground.

There's no endgame outside of some 12hour spawn "raid" mobs, they're not touching trades kills, quests don't reward any upgraded items.

The last straw was nerfing AoE to 8 targets max. Now it's even slower at endgame to gather AA, and even slower to level up new combos, in a game that was touted for solo casuals.

It's par for the course when Ailia has lead design authority. Same happened with Edge, Classless, and Chain breaker. Convoluted, unfun, barely functional "cutting edge systems" that noone asked for, nor wanted, as bandaids to real problems that the team refuses to address.


I bowed out today and won't be paying a box+sub+Mt fee for this hot dog shit abortion of an EQ server that could've been built on EQEmu in a month.
 
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Needless

Toe Sucker
<Silver Donator>
9,913
3,806
The AOE change is quite bad, the positives are there but random changes like that are pretty questionable for sure
Like what even lands them at 8 mobs? the core of EQ isnt even close to that low
 

Narac01

Trakanon Raider
1,243
771
Max raid size is 8 yeah? They probably capped everything at 8 regardless of who's casting it (pc or npc) because they're lazy. Why they did it? Who knows.
 

Burren

Silver Baronet of the Realm
6,226
10,313
Coming from someone who has poured countless hours into the beta, essentially had the best geared character in-game, and was in the first wave.

This game is going to fail. Not because of engineering bandwidth, but because the development team doesn't have a grip on reality. They want to make a "multi-class power fantasy" game yet every turn and update they bring that power down further and further.

At this point, it's just a game where you can cast more spells.

Nothing is going to work, they're not making July deadline, hell, you can't even group to level up, because they nerfed group exp into the ground.

There's no endgame outside of some 12hour spawn "raid" mobs, they're not touching trades kills, quests don't reward any upgraded items.

The last straw was nerfing AoE to 8 targets max. Now it's even slower at endgame to gather AA, and even slower to level up new combos, in a game that was touted for solo casuals.

It's par for the course when Ailia has lead design authority. Same happened with Edge, Classless, and Chain breaker. Convoluted, unfun, barely functional "cutting edge systems" that noone asked for, nor wanted, as bandaids to real problems that the team refuses to address.


I bowed out today and won't be paying a box+sub+Mt fee for this hot dog shit abortion of an EQ server that could've been built on EQEmu in a month.
It’s possible they reverse decisions or add things people want. 6-8 more weeks of testing and feedback.
It’s just as possible this does go down in flames and it would be a shame. Looked fun.
 
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MazeEq

Lord Nagafen Raider
247
180
Max raid size is 8 yeah? They probably capped everything at 8 regardless of who's casting it (pc or npc) because they're lazy. Why they did it? Who knows.
Yea max raid size is 8. Doesn't make sense to nerf Aoe to 8 targets when single target TTK is upwards of 60s.

Server is not a power fantasy like THJ, it's a horrific grind, and I've done 1-60 on 15 TLPs.

Needless to say, I'll probably not end up on the live service, and go back to EQEmulator to do dumb fun shit.
 

MazeEq

Lord Nagafen Raider
247
180
It’s possible they reverse decisions or add things people want. 6-8 more weeks of testing and feedback.
It’s just as possible this does go down in flames and it would be a shame. Looked fun.
The track record speaks for itself. They've made no conscious effort to even fix progression halting issues like resists not working, class cohesion, and have basically turned this into meleequest, because casters are dog shit.

I have zero faith after my 30 day stint.

It's going to crash and burn when 75% of the population can't kill Nagafen.
 
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Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
34,429
101,452
Not the 18 weeks of Velious 18 weeks of Luclin 16 weeks of PoP it's May fresh TLP buy bags please but the swift 8 week unlocks after with huge bonuses plus challenges. That looks pretty good.
 

Mrniceguy

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,078
612
Coming from someone who has poured countless hours into the beta, essentially had the best geared character in-game, and was in the first wave.

This game is going to fail. Not because of engineering bandwidth, but because the development team doesn't have a grip on reality. They want to make a "multi-class power fantasy" game yet every turn and update they bring that power down further and further.

It's comical that a year from now due to the Vaniki ruleset Frostreaver will be more of a "power fantasy" than EQL.
 
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hory

Silver Baronet of the Realm
2,541
6,447
Why didn’t they just copy THJ. THJ worked well in every aspect from the ports to the global buffs. Also the 0 down time was what made it fun.
 
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moonarchia

The Scientific Shitlord
<Bronze Donator>
30,956
61,076
Well, made it to 50 yesterday on my brdcuck. 49 was the final spells for my setup, and it really does flow nicely now. Going to need to determine my BIS setup and start farming for it, but otherwise I am rocking. It only took a week to get there just casualing my way through shit and using shit gear.

Before I start pushing on brdcuck I am taking a break to level ber/mnk/dru for ports. Going to try out befallen because why the fuck not?
 
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Talenvor

Molten Core Raider
1,096
283
Why didn’t they just copy THJ. THJ worked well in every aspect from the ports to the global buffs. Also the 0 down time was what made it fun.
because they think they know better. Change for the sake of change, sadly
 
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Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,331
995
Why didn’t they just copy THJ. THJ worked well in every aspect from the ports to the global buffs. Also the 0 down time was what made it fun.

That's what I'm saying... at least as a baseline with some minor tweaks. They could have started out with Classic with a quick move to Kunark as they worked through a few tweaks and improvements. THJ had a lot of momentum. I was really hoping to experience some expansions that I barely scratched to surface in like House of Thule. I feel like they're way overthinking this and trying to do too much. The equation is already written and pretty well solved. They seem pretty capable in terms of programming and leveraging the interafce to support their systems so they can make this work if they'll not unnecessarily complicate their product.
 
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Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
11,218
8,678
Why didn’t they just copy THJ. THJ worked well in every aspect from the ports to the global buffs. Also the 0 down time was what made it fun.
I played during launch, and the system was honestly imbalanced to the point where I ignored most of the experience gain mechanics for items unless there was a specific item I was targeting.

I'd get upgrades quicker than I would actually find an item interesting, and often times it was faster to just re-farm an item until it procced up in quality, or leave an item in the slot and forget about it until it stopped generating messages. Or leave my PC on overnight while mobs die.

My experience may be slightly twisted by the fact that the entire item leveling system was broken due to a code bug on launch for several months.

As others pointed out, because you could reliably AFK farm, the interesting parts of the game (ie; grouping with other players) were generally automated in private instances alone. Then, it became a system of farming lower bosses by effectively one shotting them or autoattacking them until they die once per day.

This leads to the game being devoid of social interactions outside of maybe early attempts where no one has powerful gear, or some later times when someone catches you up.
As you've pointed out - buying BIS gear was a problem for how the game was structured and wasn't the only way in which that structure was broken. Being able to group with significantly more powerful characters that could get you the same gear was also a way to skip the entire design.

The only gameplay that was left after this is initial choice in character builds via their pre-defined AAs and skills/spells loadouts, and with trying to get your already-powerful character more powerful via items. The 'current best build' would generally change with the attempt to balance everything.

The best incremental upgrades came from grinding AA, and items went from 0 to 100 on power creep.
I would say that the biggest flaws in balance came from the ability to automate the best increase in power. There were a ton of folks cheating ingame by automating AA XP gains over the server's lifespan.

Forcing yourself to engage with that loop in solo or self-found just meant that you, yourself, alone, did all of the AFK killing / boring automation parts - and no one was allowed to help you. And at the end of that, you could tell the world, "Hey! I did this myself!"

Effectively, the core design was a skinner box with an EverQuest skin. And they weren't the first server to come up with that concept.

I would say the strongest part of the gameplay loop for THJ was the ability to interact with content alone based on nostalgia. It allowed players to interact in a familiar world and that nostalgia itself pulled what was otherwise 'potentially good design done slightly wrong' ahead.

I would not expect a game with THJ's exact balance to be sustainable long term, because you would eventually run dry of content. It's the same problem EQ Classless ran into, and why future iterations tried to correct that design flaw, but ultimately it boils down to needing a treadmill for the rats to run on.

Also, I don't think a THJ-like game would draw initial attention if it didn't have EverQuest attached to it - or if it didn't have EQ's years of content available without addressing its core balance and content design issues first.

To be clear, this is one of the most fatal flaws of MMOs in general, and isn't just limited to this design, but that's a different discussion. They run out of content quickly and only those with years and years of content are generally interesting for more than a cursory glance. You can see this with Pantheon, for instance - it only had so much content to go around, and to even land on the ability to make content, you had to spend a ton of time in predevelopment.

And the current methodology in which games are made will not allow for that in AAA published games - they want to get their money ASAP, and to flesh out months of playable content while making a game at MMO scale requires rapid design and content iteration. Those tools for content creation are generally reinvented each time a project attempts something like this, or if they are already invented, need to be adapted to the design of the game, which results in the same level of time consumption.

Utilizing AI would ultimately result in a lower quality product, and players will be able to easily clock AI design and narrative if they see it. It would take the right content designers to be able to modify what it outputs and make it reliably interesting.