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Korzax Stonehammer said:

"If someone would like to PM me the specific issues where players can grief the cleric epic, I would be grateful. You'd save me a lot of time." Absor.

What's the scoop

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Think there is a turn in or two that spawns a mob that can be stolen. Ive never actually did the quest but always heard of people sniping it.

I also love that he's even gotta ask that question being that it gets reported on the regular. Or the fact that he has been there for like 2 decades and could figure it out by reading the 5 minute walkthrough.

They did this when asking about the chardok pick/succor spot. Asked on the forums when it literally takes him 2 min to warp to chardok and look and change the loc.

Why rely on customers when you know he is going to confirm all that someone tells him anyways. Super weird way to go about these things. Seems like a waste of time to even ask some of these things. As you say... it really wouldn't be that hard to look these things up.

I'm hoping it's because he read my initial post (from like 3 years ago) and is actually going through and applying some of the fixes I recommended. Some of them are no longer relevant such as Marl Kastane as he has already been adjusted in interim and they have rolled out the new loot locked system (the asterisk * spawned quest NPCs) which weren't a thing when I made that post.

I haven't done the cleric epic since 2018 so I don't know how many, if any, of their steps got loot locked so I'm unable to send him a PM on it. Cleric has a lot of steps where they turnin an item and the NPC spawns to kill and loot something off of (Spirit of Flame, Ixiblat, Plasmatic Priest, Zordak himself) and every other turnin spawns an NPC ONCE that you have to turn in an item so another cleric can snipe your turnin if they fucked up or the mob can just be killed/held ransom by opposing guilds.

What's odd is the thread was buried back a bit before Absor semi-necro'ed it.

The short answer is people were only thinking they were being griefed simply because they were following a cleric epic guide, they didn't realize there is a 2ndary mob that is constantly up that you are able to use to bypass the part they were claiming they were being "griefed" at. So since they thought they were stuck, they were then waiting to steal the next clerics turn in, starting a never ending cycle of people not realizing you can use an entirely different npc in another zone to bypass that part. I guess they could fix the original mob so people who've never done a cleric epic wont get confused and think they are being scammed out of their epic thus causing a lot of reports, but there is definitely a doable work around to the issue.

Atabishi said:

The short answer is people were only thinking they were being griefed simply because they were following a cleric epic guide, they didn't realize there is a 2ndary mob that is constantly up that you are able to use to bypass the part they were claiming they were being "griefed" at. So since they thought they were stuck, they were then waiting to steal the next clerics turn in, starting a never ending cycle of people not realizing you can use an entirely different npc in another zone to bypass that part. I guess they could fix the original mob so people who've never done a cleric epic wont get confused and think they are being scammed out of their epic thus causing a lot of reports, but there is definitely a doable work around to the issue.

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Can you not still steal bergurgle crown turnins? I don't know what all NPCs got the * treatment.

Bobbybick said:

Can you not still steal bergurgle crown turnins? I don't know what all NPCs got the * treatment.

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I'd have to ask one of our clerics that got their part stolen in kunark to give you a 100% answer. We had several of our clerics/cleric boxes get that part stolen because "someone did it to me so I have to do it to the next person" type thing, but it ended up being a non issue as they found a workaround to it that didn't involve stealing the next persons thing.

Bobbybick said:

Can you not still steal bergurgle crown turnins? I don't know what all NPCs got the * treatment.

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the workaround was turning the piece in to natasha in TD instead of the one from the crown turn in. the spirit of flame is * mob but where people thought they were being griefed is someone would do the seashell turn in to natasha that spawns as a result, so then they'd steal the next clerics natasha. But you could just go use natasha in TD instead.

The fact that the final fight for the monk epic is still not * is just too funny. Someone actually went through the work to "find" which mobs needed the * and could have spent 5 extra seconds to get it right, but did not. And I imagine it has been reported by people that do monk epics. They * the mobs that spawn from the Astral, which does absolutely nothing.

I wonder if the DZkick spot for Western Wastes is still under the water in Sirens Grotto. I remember finding that out on Phinny server and wondering how the heck someone could have picked that location. It was not the succor spot, it was not the zoneline. It was just some location in the middle of the water. Could have thrown a dart at a map and gotten a better location.

[ ] Coral Statue of Tarew Marr
[ ] Loot Lord Bergurgle's Crown from Lord Bergurgle in Lake Rathetear
[ ] Give Crown to Shmendrik Lavawalker in Lake Rathe Receive Oil of Fennin Ro. A Spirit of Flame will Spawn shortly after.
NOTE: The Spirit of Flame WILL kill Natasha if you don't kill it quick enough.
[ ] Kill the Spirit of Flame, Loot Damaged Goblin Crown. Give the crown to Natasha Whitewater for Ornate Sea Shell.
[ ] Give Ornate Sea Shell to Omat Vastsea in Timorous Deep. Receive Coral Statue of Tarew Marr

I'm not fully understanding this workaround for being griefed at this stage. You don't need the Lord Bergurgle crown to spawn the Spirit of Flame right? And the Spirit of Flame drops the Damage Goblin Crown.

So, the real way of doing it, you turn the crown in to "spawn natasha", you receive a damaged crown from killing the flame, which you can get at ANY time?, and give the damaged crown to natasha. So, if the natasha in TD accepts this damaged crown. Why even camp Lord Bergurgle? Couldn't you just kill the shmendrik / spirit of flame... and then turn the damaged crown into the Natasha TD? Btw the natasha TD also isn't ALWAYS up so that's prob why the majority of people would do it in the correct order.

I thought the problem was people were pre-killing shmendrik and spirit of flame, and they had a "damaged crown" ready to turn in and as soon as you turned your real crown in and natasha spawned, they would turn their damaged crown in before you could possibly kill and loot and turn in yours from the flame. Did something change or are you saying you can completely skip camping Lord Bergurgle? Or am I missing something here?

Bobbybick use this as a bargaining tool for getting your account unbanned!

I'm pretty sure dragon version of ragefire isnt *. So you could KS that and send them back to.. gimblox and pearls.. because you nuked their message to natasha and box of bindings?

With the * natasha in TD, are you able to hand in if its not your loot lock? because that would be an even better grief if you can't.

Also, just slip in randomly that from out of no where 72 of Tubbin's bots warp in on KT on Christmas day and that is the real cause of the cleric epic grief.

Los_Necros said:

[ ] Coral Statue of Tarew Marr
[ ] Loot Lord Bergurgle's Crown from Lord Bergurgle in Lake Rathetear
[ ] Give Crown to Shmendrik Lavawalker in Lake Rathe Receive Oil of Fennin Ro. A Spirit of Flame will Spawn shortly after.
NOTE: The Spirit of Flame WILL kill Natasha if you don't kill it quick enough.
[ ] Kill the Spirit of Flame, Loot Damaged Goblin Crown. Give the crown to Natasha Whitewater for Ornate Sea Shell.
[ ] Give Ornate Sea Shell to Omat Vastsea in Timorous Deep. Receive Coral Statue of Tarew Marr

I'm not fully understanding this workaround for being griefed at this stage. You don't need the Lord Bergurgle crown to spawn the Spirit of Flame right? And the Spirit of Flame drops the Damage Goblin Crown.

So, the real way of doing it, you turn the crown in to "spawn natasha", you receive a damaged crown from killing the flame, which you can get at ANY time?, and give the damaged crown to natasha. So, if the natasha in TD accepts this damaged crown. Why even camp Lord Bergurgle? Couldn't you just kill the shmendrik / spirit of flame... and then turn the damaged crown into the Natasha TD? Btw the natasha TD also isn't ALWAYS up so that's prob why the majority of people would do it in the correct order.

I thought the problem was people were pre-killing shmendrik and spirit of flame, and they had a "damaged crown" ready to turn in and as soon as you turned your real crown in and natasha spawned, they would turn their damaged crown in before you could possibly kill and loot and turn in yours from the flame. Did something change or are you saying you can completely skip camping Lord Bergurgle? Or am I missing something here?

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The Natasha in TD isn't always up, but its up often enough.

From my understanding you need the Bergurgle crown to give to Shmendrik to spawn the Spirit of Flame (which is loot locked) and Natasha. The cleric though has to then kill Spirit of Flame to get the damaged crown to hand to Natasha which despawns on turn in. What I assume probably happened is that some people weren't killing the Spirit fast enough, Natasha was dying, so they were getting the damaged goblin crown but no Natasha to hand it to. So they were waiting for another cleric to hand in a crown to Shmendrik to spawn Natasha, and then snipe their Natasha before they could kill the Spirit. It basically just started a vicious cycle of clerics sniping Natashas off other clerics because theirs got sniped from them.

Some people didn't want to steal others Natashas, so they were actually farming another crown just to spawn her again.
What our clerics found though is that when you get to the part where you spawn Natasha in TD or if you just find her up, you can actually hand her the damaged crown as well. The Natasha in TD doesn't despawn apparently on turn in and probably works similar to the wiz epic spawned *locked npc's that you do hand ins for were several people can finish off the same *locked npc.

There are 2 spawned Natashas in TD. One of them does despawn and one doesn't. Turning in the first time, using gimblox ring, despawns her. But, the other turn in, later, doesn't. Or it's the reverse but I think I have that right. But, that's irrelevant to this point.

So, the first issue, is that you don't need the bergurgle crown to get the damage crown. You literally kill Shmendrik and the Spirit of Flame spawns. You kill the Spirit of Flame and loot the damaged crown. You hand that damaged crown into Natasha. The ONLY reason you need the Lord Bergurgle crown is to SPAWN natasha to do the turn in. You don't actually get anything relevant for turning in Lord Bergurgle's Crown. -- EDIT: This way the issue for people getting their stuff stolen... People pre kill shmenick, spirit spawns, they kill spirit, they get damaged crown, they wait a few hours for someone else to use their lord bergurgle crown and they sit next to where Natasha spawns and turn their piece in.

So, I am curious. Are you saying you can completely skip getting a Lord Bergurgle crown? Or are you not getting the correct story from people?

It wouldn't surprise me if you could skip the Lord Bergurgle part, but it would surprise me that I haven't heard of this in 4 years.

Los_Necros said:

There are 2 spawned Natashas in TD. One of them does despawn and one doesn't. Turning in the first time, using gimblox ring, despawns her. But, the other turn in, later, doesn't. Or it's the reverse but I think I have that right. But, that's irrelevant to this point.

So, the first issue, is that you don't need the bergurgle crown to get the damage crown. You literally kill Shmendrik and the Spirit of Flame spawns. You kill the Spirit of Flame and loot the damaged crown. You hand that damaged crown into Natasha. The ONLY reason you need the Lord Bergurgle crown is to SPAWN natasha to do the turn in. You don't actually get anything relevant for turning in Lord Bergurgle's Crown.

So, I am curious. Are you saying you can completely skip getting a Lord Bergurgle crown? Or are you not getting the correct story from people?

It wouldn't surprise me if you could skip the Lord Bergurgle part, but it would surprise me that I haven't heard of this in 4 years.

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I'm unsure. I don't know which Natasha in TD they were handing their damaged crown in to but i would assume the bergurgle crown is still required in some way. I asked a few of the clerics i know last night that used the TD natasha as a replacement and they confirmed it worked for them.

Were they talking about lord bergurgle part turning into Natasha or something else? Cause, I do know a secondary issue was that people were waiting for others to spawn the Natasha in TD since you spawn her twice in TD. Sometimes people would spawn her and not realize that they were supposed to have another piece ready for the spawned version. So, they'd have to go get that new piece and they had no way of spawning Natasha. So, they'd have to wait for someone else to spawn her in TD. That sounds more like what is being talked about.

[ ] Give Robe to Omat Vastsea –receive Orb of Frozen Water
--- Natasha Spawns nearby ---
[ ] Orb of Clear Water
[ ] Give Lord Gimblox's Ring to Natasha Whitewater in Timorous Deep. Receive Ornate Sea Shell (Item Lore: Seashell II)

Some people do forget they need the ring on them at the same time they do the robe turn in. so they end up with a gimblox ring and no way to spawn her when they finally go back.


Again, if you are saying you can completely skip Lord Bergurgle crown, then that would be amazing.

If you have done the cleric epic in the last few years, all the way through, you would understand where my confusion is. The ONLY use for the Lord Bergurgle crown is to SPAWN Natasha in Lake Rathe. There is absolutely no other use for that crown. You can get the Damaged Crown just by killing Shmenick. Killing him will spawn the spirit and killing the spirit will give you damaged crown. If what you're saying is true, then you could just get a damaged crown in 2 minutes and skip camping Lord Bergurgle by just using a Natasha in TD.

Yeah if what you're saying is true than only one person needs to do burgurgle and everyone else can all piggyback the TD spawn later. Which makes me somewhat unsure that's working as I'd like to think I'd have heard about it especially from the former cleric epic mq spammers - some of those guys were literally camping multiple burgurgle backups.

The alternative is that people stole someone's turn in natasha in LR and lied about it because they didn't want to admit they were a douche?

Just posted in our discord about the patch:

- The Coldain Ring War - Churn the Axeman, Kargin the Archer, Corbin Blackwell, Dobbin Crossaxe, and Garadain Glacierbane will now only give their rewards once at the end of the event.



[11:09 AM]
- Made changes to many items that have unlimited charges and instant-cast spells attached: - - Many items that previously had no cast or recast time now have a 1 second recast time. - - Many spells on these items, such as the Poison Fungus Skull Staff, Pale Dragon Bone Ring, and Aspect of the Brood, will no longer generate aggro.

So they finally killed the Ring War loots and nerfed all aggro generating items? This is a bug jump for them!

So there is no way to actually grief the epic? There is a workaround in place?

The change in instant click aggro is hilarious. You know what classes it hurts the most? Casters. The class already hurting the most. Spell threat is hyper disproportionate to melee threat.

Foaming said:

The change in instant click aggro is hilarious. You know what classes it hurts the most? Casters. The class already hurting the most. Spell threat is hyper disproportionate to melee threat.

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Rip Mages

I mean turning early EQ into Meleequest and getting everyone to not play casters just gets the always rerolling around PoP people to feel what everyone that plays past PoP already knows.