Falling out of love with gaming

Titan_Atlas

Deus Vult
<Banned>
7,883
19,909
It isn't that people aren't willing to pay 15$ a month for entertainment. It's that we're tired of paying 15$ a month for what amounts to, basically, an "access fee". If MMO companies were releasing a new dungeon/raid zone a month? Sure, TAKE MY MONEY! But to charge me 15$ a month, when the only content you add comes in 3+ month intervals, a lot of times without any "world" content at all? Hell no.
I think you misunderstand, i'm saying 15 dollars doesn't cover at a reasonable return the investment they make. I'm saying your vacation to Hawaii shouldn't cost 1200 per person with flight. I'm saying the cost with profit is greatest by determining the cheapest piece of crap the cheap consumers in America will accept.

It's the same thing that happened with music the companies held CD costs high because they were satisfying their investors IE your 401k. Then everyone began stealing music saying they had no right to charge for music. They music companies said you have no right to steal our product. Vicious circle in which both sides are wrong. It's not ok to steal, why not go without? Because god forbid you assholes have less of something. The companies are wrong trying to boost quarterly for their own stock dividends and the consumers are wrong for being cheap over consumers.
 

Merquise_sl

shitlord
32
0
I've always had a direction to go. Yes I am an old fart of 30 now, and my wife and child would benefit if I quit playing games for sure.

I've always had a game to play though, from Atari space invaders, pitfall, adventure, then NES Mario, Zelda, Metroid, PC: Wing commander, Tie Fighter, C&C , Quake, EQ, WOW. Of course I played many other games, but I always had a main game to go back too.

Now I don't, there is a huge cesspool of games out there, and they mostly suck.
 
1,678
149
The same ratio of crap to good has always existed for the most part. The only reason you don't remember the crap as much is because as the years pass, you tend to just remember the good. For every Chronotrigger, there were 25 pieces of shit like Acro the Acrobat or Bubsy.
I think that is probably true, but still... at least we actually had stuff like Chronotrigger back then. These days, we still get all the same crap, but we get less Chronotriggers. The big epic supposedly good games nowadays, are mostly crap too.

At least... that's how I felt for the past 15 years, up until about 2011 or so. This last year or two, things have taken a u-turn in my opinion. Kickstarter is a total revolution, and it's combined with the likes of Minecraft and Star Citizen which are getting their funding in unconventional ways. The good games are being made now, in spite of the dumbass publishers who only want to invest in safe bland games.

I really wish the Asheron's Call model would have taken off and been brought to the next level. It was gloriously episodic and if the genre could have been taken down that path, I think gamers would be a lot more engaged right now.
That game got a pretty raw deal I think. I think gamers were too busy already playing other stuff. I deserved to be a bigger deal.
 

Darshu_sl

shitlord
235
0
I think that is probably true, but still... at least we actually had stuff like Chronotrigger back then. These days, we still get all the same crap, but we get less Chronotriggers. The big epic supposedly good games nowadays, are mostly crap too.
QFT... If you want an example of this look at what happened to Final Fantasy. It went from large world you could explore with an airship to a game on rails in the latest iteration....
 

Rod-138

Trakanon Raider
1,147
893
Actually just picked up Dark Souls finally and thought it was a mighty fine game. mighty fine

Don't know if I'm in love but its definitely almost stalker level
 

alavaz

Trakanon Raider
2,001
713
rrr_img_31751.jpg
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
It still hasn't happened to me with music, television, movies, or games. If anything as the market expands to satisfy larger markets, more niche products continue to emerge that satisfy my desires better than ever.

Media is getting better and better. I can't believe the shit we used to tolerate. Old games are bad. Not every piece of shiny in the latest generation is necessarily an upgrade, but the quality level has risen.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,125
3,818
Tech keeps getting better. Visuals keep improving. Distribution methods are getting sleeker and more convenient. Style and format has changed drastically; but the mobile, download and crowd funded markets are bringing lots of old genres back to life.

Production values are a bit of a mixed bag. Some games shine while others are festering. Writing is also a mixed bag. Some games still produce memorable scenes, and others are actively forgotten while you play them.

The only thing I can see that is largely missing out of the modern gaming sphere is this: The willingness to let the player fail. Old games had this in spades, to the point where it was the primary source of content for some games. Few modern titles are willing to push the player very hard, without tons of advanced warning. The few games that do decide that killing the player with no remorse is perfectly acceptable are not all instant classics. But the ones that allow it AND get it right, are typically hailed as masterpieces.

It is a very thin line to walk and takes an extremely thorough knowledge of what you are asking the player to do. But it offers the most satisfying experiences in gaming when the effort to fine tune the game play right up to what is possible, is put forth.

Some games will try and cheat this process and simply add in a hard mode that scales some statistics and narrows some margins of success on a spreadsheet. That isn't very engaging and usually produces slow or tedious difficulty. The really rewarding difficulty is the kind that forces a player to learn the game, learn it's various systems, and then armed with this knowledge is able to simply dominate the areas that gave them hell. No additional power ups needed, just some information and some freshly honed skills. How a game teaches a player and imparts this wisdom is a bit of an art, and is where the height of game design is found.

A lot of modern titles do this through blatant pop ups or onerous heavy handed dialogue or GIANT GLOWING THINGS. There is no subtlety or nuance that allows the player time to explore and discover. And therefore, their gaming experiences rely on all of the other facets of the game to give the player a sense of quality. This usually ends up creating an interactive movie. Which most AAA franchises seem to emulate at this point.

There are some absolutely amazing and intuitive games with minimalist graphics, and there are some snoozefests with stunning 3D visuals. And then there is everything in-between. The few games that achieve greatness in every facet are the ones that get remembered for a long long time.
 

Sidhe

<Banned>
42
1
The only thing I can see that is largely missing out of the modern gaming sphere is this: The willingness to let the player fail. Old games had this in spades, to the point where it was the primary source of content for some games. Few modern titles are willing to push the player very hard, without tons of advanced warning. The few games that do decide that killing the player with no remorse is perfectly acceptable are not all instant classics. But the ones that allow it AND get it right, are typically hailed as masterpieces.

It is a very thin line to walk and takes an extremely thorough knowledge of what you are asking the player to do. But it offers the most satisfying experiences in gaming when the effort to fine tune the game play right up to what is possible, is put forth.
I went to the DigX conference in London, ON last year, and had a very interesting conversation with Mike Laidlaw of Bioware about exactly this. He was giving a talk on "Freedom vs Narrative" and the concept of agency in video games. He actually did a really solid breakdown of the problems with Dragon Age 2 (and the comparative success of the new XCOM). When he took questions at the end, I asked him what ever happened to the "freedom to fail" and have it actually affect the game world. I cited things like Ultima III (attack the king and the guards punt you out of town and never, EVER let you back in) and Final Fantasy III (failing to save Shadow and ending up with -1 character).

He really, REALLY liked this question. He's a writer turned designer, so story means a lot to him, and being hamstrung into "your player can never really lose anything" really hinders story. He spent 20-25 minutes answering it.

The short version of what he said is this: A writer can go pitch a story that could involve something like this. We'll use losing access to a city because you were a bad boy as an example. So his team lead goes to the team lead in charge of building that city. The response is roughly "What do you mean you want some players to not get to explore this city?! We just spent 3 million dollars and 500 man-hours on it!" And that's that.

Basically, it has to do with scaling development costs. They just can't see the value in it. Not when your average gamer will just throw a fit that "my friend saw something cool but it wasn't like that in my game!" The "correct" solution is to have divergent story, not culled story. Getting ousted by the guards should give you diplomatic options, rogueish options, criminal connections, that sort of thing. Obviously they didn't have the time, experience, or technology to do this with Ultima III, but even today they still don't have the time (or arguably the technology).

He DID have good news in the long run though. People who know more about the industry than I do have been saying that players are desiring more and more to have gaming be an activity they can talk about with other people in any setting (water cooler talk). For this to be any good, it means that the developers have to let go a little bit and allow for players to actually have different experiences, so that they'll have something to talk about.
 

Tol_sl

shitlord
759
0
I can point out exactly what I hate in games now. I like a lot of new stuff, but hate a lot of other conventions.

I like: better availability of Indie games like FTL, steam, a lot of competitive multiplayer games are much easier to use and play (remember trying to set up games with westwood online? gross.)

Dislike: Near complete stagnation of the MMO genre, QTEs EVERYWHERE, Constant over-scripting, How 90% of DLC is packaged (especially "map packs" at the expense of creation tools. Let the players create and use their own maps.)

I think over-scripting is my biggest pet peeve. Sometimes I play a game, like the new Tomb raider or RE6, and they won't fucking let me play for the better portion of an hour or more because I'm subjected to mandatory tutorials, QTEs, and really, really boring scripted segments. I played goldeneye reloaded last week and just found myself pissed off because that game didnt need QTES all over the place. I tend to prefer games like killing floor and dark souls, where I can just jump in and play endlessly and without 'cinematic' interruptions.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Sounds like you would want to hunt down Rockstar and skullfuck every last employee that worked on Max Payne 3 then.

(it's on my bucket list)
 

Tol_sl

shitlord
759
0
I actually really enjoyed a lot of max payne 3, surprisingly. The biggest problem was that the replay value was DEAD to me after I finished it on oldschool and hardcore mode because of constant, unskippable cutscenes. The other big problem with it for me was that oldschool mode was about 100x more fun than the standard game, and should have been unlocked by default. The default mode with painkiller-stunlock loops was dumb.
 

spronk

FPS noob
22,765
26,008
I just finished Max Payne 3 this weekend, and while parts were enjoyable holy shit it was so terrible in the beginning, being constantly locked into cutscenes. Stop shitting up my video games with your movie artistic pretensions, please. It was especially bad since on my widescreen display all the cutscenes were shrunk into little windows in the middle of the screen, ugh so bad. Also I really, really hate games like MP3 that put in a lot of extra secret stuff, but moving past an invisible line in a room locks you out of that room and getting any extra stuff. My game slowed to a crawl after I would inspect every nook and cranny looking for shit, I felt like some retarded janitor ("I hear your screams lady, but first I gotta search for any clues in this closet!").

One thing I gotta say that makes me still feel like a nerdcore gamer, is the whole xbone vs ps4 debate. Haven't touched a console game in years, love reading all the shit and preordering a PS4. Feels like picking a sports team or something. MMOs are pretty much dead to me though, just cannot give a shit anymore about Wow, Rift, Wildstar, EQNext, etc. Indie games and a few of the PC-AAA titles are my world now, its way more fun reading about EQ, Wow or Rift than actually playing it.
 

Kreugen

Vyemm Raider
6,599
793
Playing through the ME3 DLC (especially Citadel) did remind me that there ARE good games out there. Especially games that make me laugh or connect in some way, and Bioware stuff has always been good for that.
 

zombiewizardhawk

Potato del Grande
9,347
11,966
QFT... If you want an example of this look at what happened to Final Fantasy. It went from large world you could explore with an airship to a game on rails in the latest iteration....
Terrible example because most of the FF games don't give you an airship and an open world to travel/explore until right before the end.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
37,961
14,508
Bought the Last of Us for my girlfriend. She played for like 30 minutes at release and hasn't touched it since. Just adding it to the pile of games i've bought her that she is never motivated to play.

I tried to play a little WoW and instead ended up reading a book. I am such an old man.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Bought the Last of Us for my girlfriend. She played for like 30 minutes at release and hasn't touched it since. Just adding it to the pile of games i've bought her that she is never motivated to play.

tried to play a little WoW and instead ended up reading a book. I am such an old man.
There's something to be said for trying old games that you didn't like the first go around. I played a very little Legends of Norrath around release and wasn't interested. Finally tried it again last week maybe 4 years after I first played it as I was super bored (and also had a bunch of free unopened packs from EQ Progression server days) and I'm really digging it.

So look back on that pile of games, maybe there is one from a few years back that you or she didn't like then but will dig now.