Fallout 4

Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,741
34,935
hodj_sl said:
Yet having to eat food, heal, drink, etc. makes the game more immersive in regards to the setting, imo.
Click to expand...
Fallout games have NEVER been about survival. They've never really portrayed the protagonist as having an immense struggle with surviving the wastes from a food/water aspect. Sure, they've given you background information that clean food/water is scarce, but it has been something added as mostly background/aesthetics, not something they've ever given indication they expect the player to "deal" with.

Turning Fallout into yet another survival sim would be about the dumbest fucking thing Bethesda could do, which would be impressive, considering they're full of dumbfuck ideas over there.
 
hodj

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
K now cite when I said "Let's turn Fallout into a survival simulator!"

Can you guys read?

It wasn't Bethesda that added the need for eating/drinking and whatnot, either.

It was Obsidian, which included multiple people who worked on the original games during the development of New Vegas.

How the fuck do you turn "I hope they bring back a feature that was immensely popular and added in via mods to Fallout 3 and then adopted into New Vegas as a result" into "I hope they turn Fallout 4 into a survival simulator"?

You guys are reading what you want to into what I said or something. Someone please explain this logic to me.
 
Skanda

Skanda

I'm Amod too!
6,662
4,506
I would personally expect food/drink to be closer to Skyrim than Fallout but we shall see.

rrr_img_110781.jpg
 
Erronius

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
16,491
42,462
hodj_sl said:
If you're standing half a mile from the bomb when it detonates, you're obliterated in fractions of a second.
Click to expand...
I don't think it's literally fractions of a second, maybe a few seconds (still not enough time to run and get into / close vault door) but /shrug. Def might get blinded in the first flash and take some serious radiation, but I'd want to say the fireball isn't going to hit the 1/2 mile mark in under a second.

HAIRSPLITTING INTERNET DEBATE, GO!!!


also wasn't sure if this belonged here or the GG thread

gamergate_life_44_by_kukuruyoart-d8w3o5t.png
 
hodj

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
If the bomb is the size of Hiroshima, ~13 kilotons of TNT, then everything within a 1 mile radius is destroyed nearly instantaneously by the pressure of the explosion. The blast radius travels faster than the speed of sound, which is 340.29 m/s on sea level.

Then there's a flash of light and a fireball that covers a roughly 2 mile radius, which incinerates everything in its path. Outside the 2 mile fireball radius, things are survivable so long as you're inside a sturdy structure in a closed environment, but you'll have to remain there fore 24 hours or more so the fallout radiation has time to disperse and fall to the ground.

Either way, inside the blast radius, you're dead within 2-3 seconds max.

9.30 minutes into this video shows the effect of a nuclear explosion on simulated population centers


You can see the paint boiling away from the buildings before they are hit with the blast of pressurized x-ray heated air
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,486
73,570
I always wondered, those guy all died soon after from radiation poisoning, right?
 
Tuco

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,486
73,570
Kirun_sl said:
Fallout games have NEVER been about survival. They've never really portrayed the protagonist as having an immense struggle with surviving the wastes from a food/water aspect. Sure, they've given you background information that clean food/water is scarce, but it has been something added as mostly background/aesthetics, not something they've ever given indication they expect the player to "deal" with.

Turning Fallout into yet another survival sim would be about the dumbest fucking thing Bethesda could do, which would be impressive, considering they're full of dumbfuck ideas over there.
Click to expand...
FO4 being a survival sim would make a great game, but I agree it'd be a dumb move. Bethesda makes world-exploration games and FO4 should be no different. As long as they have the same level of modability as FO3 had, it will be made into a survival game when I play it a second time a year or two later.
 
Caliane

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
14,625
10,135
hodj_sl said:
K now cite when I said "Let's turn Fallout into a survival simulator!"

Can you guys read?

It wasn't Bethesda that added the need for eating/drinking and whatnot, either.

It was Obsidian, which included multiple people who worked on the original games during the development of New Vegas.

How the fuck do you turn "I hope they bring back a feature that was immensely popular and added in via mods to Fallout 3 and then adopted into New Vegas as a result" into "I hope they turn Fallout 4 into a survival simulator"?

You guys are reading what you want to into what I said or something. Someone please explain this logic to me.
Click to expand...
we said, "man that shit is tedious, and we'd rather not have it."
you like, "but I like it, it adds to the realism!"
so we were like, "ok the game is not designed around being a survival sim, if you are going to do it, you should incorporate it in such a way it actually makes sense and adds to the gameplay, and exploration, instead of just being tedious busywork."
 
hodj

hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,672
18,377
Doesn't seem to me you guys are saying "if you are going to do it, you should incorporate it in such a way it actually makes sense and adds to the gameplay, and exploration, instead of just being tedious busywork." could you please cite who said that or anything remotely like that? Tuco might be implying it, but that's about it. I wouldn't disagree with that statement, frankly. It should be more meaningful than it was in New Vegas, where it was just an extra feature tacked on to help make the immersion a tiny fraction of a bit more realistic.

What it seems like to me is people thinking having the option to make food and drink the tiniest fraction of a percent meaningful in the game, like you could in New Vegas, is somehow "turning Fallout into yet another survival sim".

The feature was one of the most popular changes from F3 to New Vegas, along with the gun modding (which is in and expanded upon in F4). Certainly it could be expanded upon, foods could also give more buffs and the like, meals could be cooked in the cooking station requiring multiple food types, giving better and more prolific buffs, etc. I would agree with that. But I don't want to see it stripped out completely, because it wasn't tedious in the least, if anything it was barely even noticable.

It was also a feature that you had to CHOOSE to turn on in the first place. So people that didn't like it never had to bother with it. Without it, though, food was basically meaningless in the game.

So when I asked "Has anyone heard if that feature will be in for the new game" and I start getting responses like "But the game is not actually a survival sim. The gameplay doesn't revolve around it in any real way. I mean, maybe someone could mod it to be...
Mobile basecamps. A firepit, tent. water, etc...upgrade to brahmin, attendants, etc..
While YOU can only carry what you can carry. Limits on water, rads determine how far from camp you can travel on any given day."

What I'm seeing a severe overreaction to the actual question asked.
 
Caliane

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
14,625
10,135
Erronius_sl said:
I don't think it's literally fractions of a second, maybe a few seconds (still not enough time to run and get into / close vault door) but /shrug. Def might get blinded in the first flash and take some serious radiation, but I'd want to say the fireball isn't going to hit the 1/2 mile mark in under a second.

HAIRSPLITTING INTERNET DEBATE, GO!!!


also wasn't sure if this belonged here or the GG thread

gamergate_life_44_by_kukuruyoart-d8w3o5t.png
Click to expand...
Wiki says 500-750 kilotons for the bombs in Fallout universe.
Nuclear weapons - The Fallout wiki - Fallout: New Vegas and more
heres a random article talking about what would happen if a 800 kilotone warhead blew above Newyork.
What would happen if an 800-kiloton nuclear warhead detonated above midtown Manhattan? | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

1 mile incinerated within 1 second. (16,000degrees F)
4s for the blast wave to reach 1 mile. 750mph wave
12-14s for the blast wave to reach 3 miles. 300mph wave
5miles 70-100 mph winds. strong hurricane.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Kirun_sl said:
Fallout games have NEVER been about survival. They've never really portrayed the protagonist as having an immense struggle with surviving the wastes from a food/water aspect. Sure, they've given you background information that clean food/water is scarce, but it has been something added as mostly background/aesthetics, not something they've ever given indication they expect the player to "deal" with.
Click to expand...
Never? What the fuck Fallout 1/2 did you play?

Literally, my first Fallout memory was me not knowing where to go initially because I was an inattentive teenager and wandered randomly and ran out of water and died right off the bat.

A survival experience that to that point I'd experienced in NO other game.
 
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,741
34,935
Vaclav_sl said:
Never? What the fuck Fallout 1/2 did you play?

Literally, my first Fallout memory was me not knowing where to go initially because I was an inattentive teenager and wandered randomly and ran out of water and died right off the bat.

A survival experience that to that point I'd experienced in NO other game.
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the water chip from Fallout 1? That isn't even fucking remotely close to the way "survival" is handled in most survival sims and if you think it is, your teenage self is remembering wrong. Like I said, "running out of water" was there more as an aesthetic than any sort of tangible gameplay aspect.
 
Vaclav

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Kirun_sl said:
Are you referring to the water chip from Fallout 1? That isn't even fucking remotely close to the way "survival" is handled in most survival sims and if you think it is, your teenage self is remembering wrong. Like I said, "running out of water" was there more as an aesthetic than any sort of tangible gameplay aspect.
Click to expand...
It made scarcity a real thing, and set a time limit on things - if you think drinking a thing of water/eating an item of food (both readily available in the environment) every couple game days is substantially different, you're dreaming.

No one is talking Don't Starve style - they're talking New Vegas style - which was pretty trivial and not painful.
 
K

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
I realize it would be impossible to do but I'd love for Bethesda to ramp up the difficulty on the higher settings making things more survival oriented with real scarcity of resources in addition to the normal game play. I have to agree that finding all kinds of useful shit strewn about a hundred plus years after the fact with people mulling around isn't terribly believable. Although looking at this game that doesn't seem like it's going to be the case with society clearly on the upswing, even more so than in New Vegas.

I kind of hope they do a reboot on this series for the next run and perhaps and overseas local like Britain. The story arcs in the USA seem to be nearing their end.
 
Erronius

Erronius

Macho Ma'am
<Gold Donor>
16,491
42,462
Caliane_sl said:
Wiki says 500-750 kilotons for the bombs in Fallout universe.
Nuclear weapons - The Fallout wiki - Fallout: New Vegas and more
heres a random article talking about what would happen if a 800 kilotone warhead blew above Newyork.
What would happen if an 800-kiloton nuclear warhead detonated above midtown Manhattan? | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

1 mile incinerated within 1 second. (16,000degrees F)
4s for the blast wave to reach 1 mile. 750mph wave
12-14s for the blast wave to reach 3 miles. 300mph wave
5miles 70-100 mph winds. strong hurricane.
Click to expand...
ok, ok, guess I was wrong, LOL. Though I def remember reading somewhere that there was a marked delay, maybe that was only with the early low-yield nukes.
 
Dandai

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
<Gold Donor>
5,907
4,483
Erronius_sl said:
ok, ok, guess I was wrong, LOL. Though I def remember reading somewhere that there was a marked delay, maybe that was only with the early low-yield nukes.
Click to expand...
Probably. They specifically said 800 kiloton bomb for this example. The bombs we dropped in WW2 were significantly smaller.
 
Kirun

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,741
34,935
Vaclav_sl said:
It made scarcity a real thing, and set a time limit on things - if you think drinking a thing of water/eating an item of food (both readily available in the environment) every couple game days is substantially different, you're dreaming.
Click to expand...
It's a major difference, actually. Food/water needing constant upkeep is something you're always having to collect and use. The "timer" on the water chip wasn't even close to being the same system as what you're describing. It was added as a "flavor" quest to give the impression that this is a harsh environment where food/water is scarce, but it really is no different than having a timed quest that are common to many games (e.g. save X NPC within 30 minutes! Deliver the cargo within 1 day! etc.).

There's a world of difference between what essentially amounts to a timed quest and a system where you're constantly being asked/forced to "maintain" a certain status level on your character. It acts as second health pool, really. Sure, you may not to fill it as often (or fill it in different ways), but it's basically just another upkeep system that almost always adds very little in the way of "fun" or "immersiveness". Typically, it just adds an unnecessary amount of tedium and it'd be adding it to a game that really has 0 roots in using those mechanics.
 
Faith

Faith

Useless lazy bastard.
1,178
857
Kedwyn_sl said:
I kind of hope they do a reboot on this series for the next run and perhaps and overseas local like Britain. The story arcs in the USA seem to be nearing their end.
Click to expand...
I think the whole idea behind Fallout is a dark, if humerous, reflection of the big nuclear scare in the US during the 50?s and 60?s, it would not translate well to other locations.

They could easily do a "fresh" restart in other areas of the country tho, like Chicago or some place like that. So far they only touched the east and west, still a lot of tales to be written about other parts and places.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.