Fallout 4

hodj_sl said:

They tweaked VATS somewhat

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More like they didn't make it a glorified cheat mode, that thing was bad in FO3.

Had it backwards, they changed perks from every level to every other level in NV

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They did a middle ground between 1+2 and 3 with every other.

Derpa_sl said:

More like they didn't make it a glorified cheat mode, that thing was bad in FO3.
.

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you mean your 100 small guns character could actually hit stuff reliably with small guns even if you as a player were crap at FPS combat? That'S not a cheat mode, that's core RPG gameplay, and removing that from FONV kinda sucked. Basically every shot that wasn't almost point blank you had to do yourself. 10 yard distance and your 100 guns character became a Storm trooper, spraying an entire magazine into the mojave desert with a 20% chance to hit.

hodj_sl said:

I don't remember that being the case at all, tbh.

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Maybe it's a later patch. I just replayed FO NV last week pretty much completely and the VATS is flat out useless for medium distance shots. The accuracy goes way down, even with highly accurate weapons such as rifles.

I don't know how anyone can criticize the invisible walls in FONV and also praise the steaming pile of shit that was FO3's DC layout.

And as much as I like VATS and hate the idea of Fallout being a fps--in my FO3/FONV playthroughs I'd say I took about 95% of my shots in VATS, not counting sniper shots that were from so far away that VATS couldn't register a target--it was godmode in 3 and the NV nerfs were pretty reasonable. That said, I don't ever remember missing a shot in NV with 100 small guns and the relevant perks, and I played through it once using nothing but Cowboy perk weapons (<3 Ranger Sequioa).

Quineloe_sl said:

Maybe it's a later patch. I just replayed FO NV last week pretty much completely and the VATS is flat out useless for medium distance shots. The accuracy goes way down, even with highly accurate weapons such as rifles.

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Maybe something's screwy in the German version - wife is playing it right now on PS3, and with an almost starting out character she's getting 80%+ chances on guys a good distance away with everything she's using. (And her small arms doesn't seem to help it FYI - seems that's still just damage in NV at least similar shots didn't change substantially with a level up she just had)

any word about steamcloud for this game? I am still debating whether buy it on steam or not.

You mean Steamworks? Every Bethesda game uses it now.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I hated VATS. Manually popping off headshots always seemed more reliable to me, and combat went faster without all the slowing down time. But I do understand how people who aren't good at FPS games need it, because Fallout is an RPG first and foremost.

hodj_sl said:

The reason I like VATS is solely because it is an attempt to sort of recreate the original games' combat systems in the 1st/3rd person shooter set up.

4 will improve the model by not nearly completely freezing time while VATS goes off.

They need to bring back being able to target eyes and groin though badly.

Its not perfect though, and there's plenty of reason to dislike it if you weren't a fan of the original games, or prefer a more straight shooter style experience.

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I preferred the shooter style partly because VATS in FO3 was a glorified cheat mode.

You don't need to be bad at FPS to feel that an RPG should be more about character skill than player skill.

The biggest problem with VATS in FO3 being a cheat mode was that it gave 90% damage resistance. NV dropped it to 25%.

hodj_sl said:

They need to bring back being able to target eyes and groin though badly.

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I agree, but modders fix this issue for the most part. At least adding it in and putting in some varied effects. There needs to be special dialog involved when you power fist someone straight in the nuts, modders have a harder time doing that with voices and such.

VATS not letting you target body parts with melee or unarmed was really lame. I hope they fixed that shit in FO4, because it wasn't something that could be modded.