Final Fantasy VII Remake

If you are already salty about the changes for this game, you won't like where it goes next. The whole Zack/Cloud arriving at Midgar scene with the whispers surrounding the whole city? That was for an entirely different event involving the 2004 mobile game Before Crisis. The resolution to that game was "The Turks destroy Zirconiade and as Zirconiade's domain shatters the shockwave destroys a part of Sector 6. Back in Midgar, Aerith sees the shattered particles of Zirconiade's domain fall to the ground, thinking it's snow."

Sound familiar? That's exactly what happened after Chapter 18 when we defeated the Amethyst Weapon or whatever you want to call it. The duality between the two scenes covers up the fact that a "Destiny's Crossroads" has happened twice in the span of a couple months. Zack was a side effect, he survived because some major shit was going down in Midgar that had shifted from the original timeline and less Shinra forces were available to intercept him.

The punchline is there isn't a Marty McFly from the future running around during this game. The actual change(s) happened years prior and it's likely tied to why there's a #49 Sephy test subject instead of only 12. Something major deviated at either Nibelheim or an event linked to it and Remake Part 1 only shows the major effects that occurred downstream.

edit: also saw more posts about Kyrie, she's actually a character from the novel The Kids Are Alright: A Turks Side Story and appears on the train in chapter 2, the slums in chapter 3, in wall market in chapter 9, etc. So they are definitely integrating more from other material beyond OG FF7. Whether or not they retcon her into being Yuffie in disguise is up to the whims of the writers.

Just finished the game. Loved it up until the off the rails Kingdom Hearts stuff at the end. Really wish they stuck to the original story. It reminds me of Game of Thrones TV where it is great when they adapt the books but garbage when they make up the story. Same thing with FF7 remake.

Zack is just a dull, unnecessary character I don't want to see more of. He needs to stay in Cloud's backstory where he belongs

I don't want a 1:1 FF7 redo, so I'm fine with them mixing shit up. That's like the people who want a 1:1 EQ1 remake with modern graphics...the same shit in a prettier skin is boring. This basically turns into a pseudo-sequel.

Zack is just a dull, unnecessary character I don't want to see more of. He needs to stay in Cloud's backstory where he belongs

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They could improve him. Aerith and Cloud were massively more likable in the FF7 Remake then they had been in the original game.

Rude said:

I imagine a better name for the game would be FF7-2. Besides, the story already ventured into being stupid. Cloud being able to resist Sephiroth's will makes his schizophrenia with amnesia completely pointless. Zack possibly being alive throws a wet towel on the love triangle. They made Hojo some cartoonish villain already. The Turks are already assassins with "feels", this "remake" is a fan fiction that went full retard by the end of it.

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Zack and Cloud do not exist in the same timeline, at the end of Remake at least. Zack could be some kinda of insurance policy for the Arbiters, since they helped him survive in that timeline, but who knows. I'm really interested in seeing what happens.

I'm torn. Guess its a wait and see situation. One thing I know for sure is this could have been much worse in light of the way other franchises have wound up being modernized.

The idea of maybe not knowing what's going to happen has some appeal. On the other hand, the game was fantastic for the 90% of it where it was not deviating (much) from the original.

Zack isn't an alternate timeline, that's just a change that happened in the past.

He's going to be a Sephrioth Clone and be produced as evidence that Cloud is a fraud at the North Crater.

He probably lived because Sephrioth took him over to win the battle or something.

Remake One Winged Angel is the best version.

Zindan said:

Zack and Cloud do not exist in the same timeline, at the end of Remake at least.

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Love it when people talk out of their asses.

Why don’t they exist in the same timeline? What evidence makes you draw this conclusion?

nu_11 said:

Love it when people talk out of their asses.

Why don’t they exist in the same timeline? What evidence makes you draw this conclusion?

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They're probably using the same thing the rest of the internet is using to suggest its a different timeline, the Shinra dog mascot in the Zack sequence is shown to be a different dog to the one used throughout the rest of the game.

Timechild said:

They're probably using the same thing the rest of the internet is using to suggest its a different timeline, the Shinra dog mascot in the Zack sequence is shown to be a different dog to the one used throughout the rest of the game.

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That doggie bag can suggest things. But I don't think it's enough evidence enough to come to any conclusions.

They do make a point of having that dog be center frame though, its not subtle at all.

Timechild said:

They're probably using the same thing the rest of the internet is using to suggest its a different timeline, the Shinra dog mascot in the Zack sequence is shown to be a different dog to the one used throughout the rest of the game.

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Qhue said:

They do make a point of having that dog be center frame though, its not subtle at all.

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Stamp is symbolic of Cloud, he's a good dog that follows Shinra's orders. That's what Barret calls Cloud in the Reactor 1 boming.

However Cloud doesn't follow Shinra's orders anymore after Hojo experimented on him, but he is going to follow Sephrioth's orders for the JENOVA reunion instead. There's at least two parts of the game where you are compelled to walk towards Sephrioth/JENOVA and obviously what happened in the original too.

The second Stamp is symbolic of Zack, a good dog that followed Shinra's orders but after Hojo's experiments, will now be following Sephrioth's orders. The same as Cloud (both Stamps) but a different person (different design). I mean, Zack and Cloud have almost similar character designs anyway since Cloud is wearing Zack's gear.

Zack is going to be subject to the JENOVA reunion and Sephrioth's control just like Cloud is, him being a black robed Sephrioth Clone will explain where he has been, remove him from most of the story (like the original) and give a dramatic reason for him to still be alive when it's revealed and he's a boss or something.

Alternatively a different art team do the cutscenes and in-game environment and didn't communicate about this character.

Saying it's because it's a 3rd alternate universe is a bit of a stretch with no other evidence.

Would not get to into arguing what the new plot/timelines are. This is the kind of new plot we are going to be dealing with. It isnt gonna make sense.

Cloud is not a Sephiroth "clone" - he has jhenova cells and that is how he exerts control over him... because somehow Sephiroth is more powerful than jhenova herself.

Zack however /is/ a kind-of- Angeal clone AND had the same process done to him cloud did...it's most likely why he was no jacked up while cloud was from that process.

The last bits and drops of Jhenova are said to be destroyed at the end of Advent Children with the death of Sephiroth (because a Swiss army knife confuses him) - so... whenever the "kelven event" happens to give Sephiroth time travel or recognition or whatever is yet to be seen

Chris said:

Zack isn't an alternate timeline, that's just a change that happened in the past.

He's going to be a Sephrioth Clone and be produced as evidence that Cloud is a fraud at the North Crater.

He probably lived because Sephrioth took him over to win the battle or something.

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This would make sense given how Zack "wakes up" and seems surprised he won, plus the appearance of the Ghosts during his fight. Yet, something will have to happen to separate Zack from Cloud and still have Cloud's memories be fuzzy so that he doesn't know about Zack (same with Aerith I would suppose).

Xadion said:

Cloud is not a Sephiroth "clone" - he has jhenova cells and that is how he exerts control over him... because somehow Sephiroth is more powerful than jhenova herself.

Zack however /is/ a kind-of- Angeal clone AND had the same process done to him cloud did...it's most likely why he was no jacked up while cloud was from that process.

The last bits and drops of Jhenova are said to be destroyed at the end of Advent Children with the death of Sephiroth (because a Swiss army knife confuses him) - so... whenever the "kelven event" happens to give Sephiroth time travel or recognition or whatever is yet to be seen

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Whatever terminology you want to use. Doesn't make a difference to what I'm saying.

Zack is probably even more susceptible to control than Cloud is as he had the original SOLDIER treatment AND Hojo's experimentation. That's a double dose of JENOVA.

The lifestream seems to be able to give visions of the future (like the penultimate boss gives you), so future Sephrioth could be giving past Sephrioth visiona to guide him in a sort of time loop.

I enjoyed this a lot. I'm not super into the Whispers as a plot device / low blow 4th wall-breaking dick punch thrown at the FF7 purist nerds, but I think the Sephiroth illusion elements in this game were well executed and will serve as a good setup for part 2 if they can stick the landing. I'm on board with the explanation that none of what we saw in this game was really Sephiroth, some of which is OG canon (the fragments of Jenova) and some of which is new, generated by the arbiter of destiny to try to stop the gang from changing fate (the final fight, with Sephiroth dissipating into Whispers as Cloud lands the final blow).

So my hope is that the gang will go into the open world mid story with too much confidence, having faced and "beaten" the illusion of Sephiroth, and that gets shattered after a true (fatal) encounter as a penultimate beat in part 2.

One thing that hasn't been touched on much is they seem to be leaning into Marlene being part-Ancient. The moment in the bar when Aerith goes to rescue her and there's that Whisper static and the "shh" from Aerith. And then again when leaving Aerith's house for the rescue mission and Marlene says to Barret, "That girl, she's..." but doesn't finish the thought. Marlene intuits something about Aerith that no one else knows until they are told outright. Likely the big setup here over 3 parts is, Aerith dies despite all the "change your destiny" nonsense but she is not the last Ancient so the Cetra live on. This also fills the gap leading up to Advent Children, in which Marlene is basically a mini-Aerith, tending the flowers in the church and giving Cloud the straight talk when no one else will.

Anyway TLDR; I'm not disappointed so far, the combat is the best it has been since the games went more action-oriented, and I'm optimistic about the next part.

Normal mode gave me one game over: bahamut vr battle. Now, all my characters are level 50, most materia maxed. Been looking at guides and videos online.... Hard mode is just too much effort. Anyone else feeling hard mode (no items) is just a pain in the ass?