Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2019

War DPS definitely feels a little weak. I'm not a pro but even pushing my buttons perfectly I lag behind other tanks. My opener is absurd though

Malakriss · Jul 26, 2019

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The goetia mat speculation is easy based on previous tiers, everything else is a guess on exactly what existing mats will be used. Prepare accordingly.

Merrith · Jul 26, 2019

a_skeleton_02 said:
All the support classes have an interrupt and a 10% less damage cooldown as base.

Machinists don't have anything else support wise so they should do the most damage.

Bards get songs that increase healing and DH and should do the middle amount of damage.

Dancers have the most buffs between defilement,standard and technical finish and should do the least amount of damage.

Problem now is dancers do too little damage and our rdps doesn't make up for that. If dancers get a small potency buff then bards should probably also get a small bump to keep them over dancers.

It isn't a song that increases healing, although I guess you can call it whatever you want, but it's just a CD that increases healing by 20% on the recipient. It's CD was also increased from what it was in SB. We no longer have Palisade, our actual songs don't buff party crit anymore, Troubadour was changed from the specific damage reduction to the 10% less damage CD that MCH/DNC both have (and cannot stack with either).

Otherwise everything you said mostly makes sense, MCH are doing the most damage of the 3, BRD in the middle, and DNC the least b/c it brings the most support of the 3. Perhaps they should buff DNC damage slightly, but I don't think either MCH or BRD's damage should be changed, really.

Pyros · Jul 26, 2019

Noodleface said:
War DPS definitely feels a little weak. I'm not a pro but even pushing my buttons perfectly I lag behind other tanks. My opener is absurd though

You shouldn't lag behind DRK, they're about the same. Then you have PLD a fair bit higher(relatively, not like 5k higher) and then GNB slightly ahead of that, less so that the gap between PLD and DRK/WAR. I assume they'll do small buffs. Big difference since you're a new player is stuff like, did you meld all your shit, are you eating food(even relatively cheap vendor food will give fairly large bonuses) and obviously, do you have your shit down.

I checked out your Titania kill to see how it played out and you had a ton of mistakes in your rotation, which is fairly standard when focusing on mechanics but that's gonna tank your DPS obviously. Stuff like restarting your combos halfway because you got distracted by a mechanic for example, or not using stuff as it comes off cooldown(especially with how powerful IR is for WAR). You also let that upheaval sit forever, I haven't checked WAR stuff since the expansion but in SB at least you were meant to use that stuff as soon as it came off cd. Mind you I do this shit all the time on my PLD, I'll restart a 123 combo even though I just did royal so I should be spamming Atonement instead so now I have to drop one atonement to fit the last goring in FoF, I'll forget about my cooldowns and then my FoF and Requiescat get out of sync and eventually they inverse or whatever and I lose one use of them over the course of the fight, I think I cast Holy Spirit but it didn't actually register and now I have to cut one out to fit Confiteor in etc. There's a shit ton of little things that add up and until you're super comfortable with a fight that you can kinda do it on autopilot, you're really not gonna be pulling max DPS anyway.

I'd say the biggest thing you can easily improve on however is your tomahawk usage. Simply put, you should almost never tomahawk besides pulls/ranged aggro on adds. You use it way too often. If you break from a boss to dodge an aoe, you should only use tomahawk if a) you don't have a combo going, using it cancel your combo, which is more potency loss than the gain from tomahawk itself, ESPECIALLY if you're on the 3rd part of the combo and b) if you're going to be off the boss for over 2.5s(or whatever your GCD is at), putting yourself on GCD for 1-1.5secs for a tomahawk is never worth it. There's some cases where it is useful(Innocence has some fuckface moves where he'll kinda be standing there at range not moving and you can't go closer without dying so you can throw one there if not in the middle of a comob) but a lot of the time it's detrimental to use it midfight, especially now that threat is a non factor.

Kriptini · Jul 26, 2019

a_skeleton_02 said:
Problem now is dancers do too little damage and our rdps doesn't make up for that. If dancers get a small potency buff then bards should probably also get a small bump to keep them over dancers.

I disagree with this. A good DNC can pump out 8-9k on their own and their buffs add at least another 1-2k raid DPS. The class is absolutely absurd, they even eclipse NIN + Trick Attack.

Needless · Jul 26, 2019

Man i fucking love the last boss theme for this expansion, this end of the expansion blew the rest out of the water easily lol

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2019

Pyros said:
You shouldn't lag behind DRK, they're about the same. Then you have PLD a fair bit higher(relatively, not like 5k higher) and then GNB slightly ahead of that, less so that the gap between PLD and DRK/WAR. I assume they'll do small buffs. Big difference since you're a new player is stuff like, did you meld all your shit, are you eating food(even relatively cheap vendor food will give fairly large bonuses) and obviously, do you have your shit down.

I checked out your Titania kill to see how it played out and you had a ton of mistakes in your rotation, which is fairly standard when focusing on mechanics but that's gonna tank your DPS obviously. Stuff like restarting your combos halfway because you got distracted by a mechanic for example, or not using stuff as it comes off cooldown(especially with how powerful IR is for WAR). You also let that upheaval sit forever, I haven't checked WAR stuff since the expansion but in SB at least you were meant to use that stuff as soon as it came off cd. Mind you I do this shit all the time on my PLD, I'll restart a 123 combo even though I just did royal so I should be spamming Atonement instead so now I have to drop one atonement to fit the last goring in FoF, I'll forget about my cooldowns and then my FoF and Requiescat get out of sync and eventually they inverse or whatever and I lose one use of them over the course of the fight, I think I cast Holy Spirit but it didn't actually register and now I have to cut one out to fit Confiteor in etc. There's a shit ton of little things that add up and until you're super comfortable with a fight that you can kinda do it on autopilot, you're really not gonna be pulling max DPS anyway.

I'd say the biggest thing you can easily improve on however is your tomahawk usage. Simply put, you should almost never tomahawk besides pulls/ranged aggro on adds. You use it way too often. If you break from a boss to dodge an aoe, you should only use tomahawk if a) you don't have a combo going, using it cancel your combo, which is more potency loss than the gain from tomahawk itself, ESPECIALLY if you're on the 3rd part of the combo and b) if you're going to be off the boss for over 2.5s(or whatever your GCD is at), putting yourself on GCD for 1-1.5secs for a tomahawk is never worth it. There's some cases where it is useful(Innocence has some fuckface moves where he'll kinda be standing there at range not moving and you can't go closer without dying so you can throw one there if not in the middle of a comob) but a lot of the time it's detrimental to use it midfight, especially now that threat is a non factor.

Is this from you viewing or is there a log?

I agree I was focusing heavily on mechanics - for instance I don't quite understand the timing of fae light so I downright stopped casting during it waiting for it (he had me solo tank it)

Otherwise I mostly agree. This is one instance where I miss weak auras. I want my 30s dps combo buff in a big spot in eye sight where I can see the duration. I hate looking down there for it

When I looked into upheaval I though we were banking 20 gauge for our charge and only using upheaval if charge was on CD and we wanted to blow it. Otherwise just spend a 50 FC every chance we can. I held IR a couple times to line up with adds but admittedly towards the end I was getting lost especially since I wasn't familiar with the last phase timings. Looks like I was wrong about Upheaval though and we should use it twice outside IR

I am ashamed by my log

Pyros · Jul 26, 2019

Noodleface said:
Is this from you viewing or is there a log?

I agree I was focusing heavily on mechanics - for instance I don't quite understand the timing of fae light so I downright stopped casting during it waiting for it (he had me solo tank it)

Otherwise I mostly agree. This is one instance where I miss weak auras. I want my 30s dps combo buff in a big spot in eye sight where I can see the duration. I hate looking down there for it

When I looked into upheaval I though we were banking 20 gauge for our charge and only using upheaval if charge was on CD and we wanted to blow it. Otherwise just spend a 50 FC every chance we can. I held IR a couple times to line up with adds but admittedly towards the end I was getting lost especially since I wasn't familiar with the last phase timings. Looks like I was wrong about Upheaval though and we should use it twice outside IR

Yeah during mechanics as a tank considering fucking them often wipes the raid, it's normal to focus hard and just forget about the rotation. Hell tank swaps still have me focusing too much on the right timing to shirk/taunt even though it's really simple, just I want to use all my cooldowns too and do it properly but only so much time before the tank buster hits so I'll sometimes triple weave like a scrub.

On buttons, you can't make weak auras but you could look into spelltimers for ACT or you can make a special hotbar scaled up a lot, with some alpha setting so it's transparent, and put your big cooldowns on there so you always see the buttons. As long as you use the option to hide unused key in hotbars, even if you change classes it won't be visible so it's not annoying, and it's useful for classes that rely a lot on timing(I had Trick Attack like this on my NIN so I didn't use Ninjutsus right before it refreshed like I always used to do). They won't just pop up when they're about to cooldown like weak auras would do, but it's still easier to keep track of.

On upheaval I took a peek at the balance guide and it's still use on cooldown. You might want to hold some gauge for onslaught too, so you'll need to plan gauge a bit ahead but it's a DPS gain over using the same gauge for Fel Cleave(590potency for 50gauge versus 450pot for 20gauge). There is some drift involved and you have to skip it at some point so it lines back up with IR window, but other than that just use whenever it's up.

Oh and I just looked at the twitch stream, don't know if your kill is on FFlogs even.

Oh reminds me also, turn off that ugly ass ACT healthbar. Plugins > FFXIV Overlay Settings(not overlayplugin.dll), then hide all that garbage, looks like someone took a shit on your screen.

Cybsled · Jul 26, 2019

Sam buff is easy. Make the level 80 skill suck less ass.

Either buff the fuck out of the potency per stack, or make it so stacks don’t expire until used and you can build them outside combat.

Valderen · Jul 26, 2019

Pyros said:
you can make a special hotbar scaled up a lot, with some alpha setting so it's transparent, and put your big cooldowns on there so you always see the buttons. As long as you use the option to hide unused key in hotbars

I started doing that a few months back on a few classes, it's really helpful.

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2019

Pyros said:
Yeah during mechanics as a tank considering fucking them often wipes the raid, it's normal to focus hard and just forget about the rotation. Hell tank swaps still have me focusing too much on the right timing to shirk/taunt even though it's really simple, just I want to use all my cooldowns too and do it properly but only so much time before the tank buster hits so I'll sometimes triple weave like a scrub.

On buttons, you can't make weak auras but you could look into spelltimers for ACT or you can make a special hotbar scaled up a lot, with some alpha setting so it's transparent, and put your big cooldowns on there so you always see the buttons. As long as you use the option to hide unused key in hotbars, even if you change classes it won't be visible so it's not annoying, and it's useful for classes that rely a lot on timing(I had Trick Attack like this on my NIN so I didn't use Ninjutsus right before it refreshed like I always used to do). They won't just pop up when they're about to cooldown like weak auras would do, but it's still easier to keep track of.

On upheaval I took a peek at the balance guide and it's still use on cooldown. You might want to hold some gauge for onslaught too, so you'll need to plan gauge a bit ahead but it's a DPS gain over using the same gauge for Fel Cleave(590potency for 50gauge versus 450pot for 20gauge). There is some drift involved and you have to skip it at some point so it lines back up with IR window, but other than that just use whenever it's up.

Oh and I just looked at the twitch stream, don't know if your kill is on FFlogs even.

Oh reminds me also, turn off that ugly ass ACT healthbar. Plugins > FFXIV Overlay Settings(not overlayplugin.dll), then hide all that garbage, looks like someone took a shit on your screen.

Ah yeah it is on fflogs. Thanks for the advice

I do need to meld my gear. I was waiting for some of it to be a little better but I should just do it

It's not the button I need but my damage+ buff. It's not ingrained into my head that it lasts 30s yet

khorum · Jul 26, 2019

Needless said:
Man i fucking love the last boss theme for this expansion, this end of the expansion blew the rest out of the water easily lol

The best part about that is the way they use that song at a very particular moment. We've heard that acoustic guitar version of that song for over a year now--in trailers and videos and shit--but the way they use it in that ONE moment makes it shine.

Kay · Jul 26, 2019

Ehrgeix said:
for fun, a PATCH PREDICTION:

- Freebies:
Savage added
New map dungeon added (akin to lost canals). It will drop at least one new minion
New weekly tomestones added that reward i460 gear, later upgradeable to i470
New crafted i450 pentameldable items added
New food added, but it won't for sure be better than the food we have depending on stats it gives

- A lot of this stuff is relative - there's a few big points that I think they'll address:
Blm is significantly higher raid dps than the other two selfish dps classes (mch/sam), this gap will be made narrower but likely not closed as Yoshi P previously mentioned wanting to reward Blm for not having to move
Mnk & Drg are MUCH higher raid dps than everything else right now, this gap will be closed somehow
Nin is significantly lower raid dps than the rest of the melee right now, this gap will be closed somehow
Smn is significantly better than rdm (can res similar amounts but much higher raid dps, rdm gets manascrewed badly now), this gap will be closed somehow
Brd is higher raid dps than dnc, this gap will be closed somehow
Gnb is somewhat higher raid dps than pld/drk/war (especially drk/war), they'll probably make some small adjustments here
Whm is significantly higher raid dps than ast, and somewhat higher raid dps than sch, this gap will be closed somehow

- If I had to guess specifics I'd go with:
Mnk: Large nerf
Drg: Large nerf
Nin: Small buff
Sam: Roughly stay the same

Mch: Roughly stay the same
Brd: Roughly stay the same
Dnc: Small buff

Smn: Roughly stay the same or small nerf
Rdm: Buffed significantly, either on mana/res's, or damage, or both
Blm: Small nerf

Gnb: Small nerf or roughly stay the same
Pld: Roughly stay the same
War: Small buff
Drk: Small buff

Whm: Small nerf
Scholar: Roughly stay the same
Ast: Large buff

- Wilder stuff/more specific suggestions, some qol:
Drg/Mnk: Base combo potency nerfs
Dnc: 1/2 combo potency buff
Blm: Fire potency nerf
War/Drk: Base 123 combo potency buff
Nin: Will have to press fewer buttons (perhaps some mudra changes?)
Whm: Glare potency nerf
Ast: Divination cooldown will get shorter

edit re: queries - when I say "better" I mean "more raid dps", usually. Same idea with "higher dps" = "higher raid dps". Edited post to reflect this

I hope AST gets more than that for QoL. Sleeve draw should cause Play to autodraw at least. Would be nice if they did something with MA, but I don't know what they'd do. I've seen suggestions that it could function as Play, but just plays the drawn card as its minor arcana version. That's probably drowning in the depths of "not friendly to new players" that they were supposedly trying to fix with AST, so not gonna happen. CU and CO need a potency bump or shorter cd. I'm gonna bet the other way as far as Divination goes, because I don't think they'll change it. The whole thing is a mess of carpal tunnel syndrome with some dead spots, and it feels like crap for little effect, compared to the other healers.

Is it too much to hope that they change Glare and Broil to have the same cast time/recast time setup AST does?

gshurik · Jul 26, 2019

I don't feel like WHM needs a nerf honestly. I'd rather them buff AST to make it competitive, and give SCH some more aetherflow options to make it more diverse.

If they nerf GNB damage they have to give it more mitigation.

I hope they don't do either honestly. The only job I can see being a bit OTT right now is BLM, due to it having so many mobility tools and not being enough of a turret anymore to justify the damage output.

khorum · Jul 26, 2019

Fuck AST. It was a gay class.

a_skeleton_02 · Jul 26, 2019

Kriptini said:
I disagree with this. A good DNC can pump out 8-9k on their own and their buffs add at least another 1-2k raid DPS. The class is absolutely absurd, they even eclipse NIN + Trick Attack.

Ok say you are a 8-9k dps with 1-2k rdps. That's still gonna be less than a equivalent dragoon or monk and way less than a Sam or BLM.

Doing less DPS is fine obviously but they should still have better dps with their buffs then an average dps class does normally if they where in that spot instead.

I agree with ninjas though they are in a bad spot trick attack is not making up for their dps.

Pyros · Jul 26, 2019

Noodleface said:
Ah yeah it is on fflogs. Thanks for the advice

I do need to meld my gear. I was waiting for some of it to be a little better but I should just do it

It's not the button I need but my damage+ buff. It's not ingrained into my head that it lasts 30s yet

The thing about melding currently is if you don't have a lot of money, you can still buy the 15 or whatever materias you need as VI materias, they're pretty cheap, and they can be removed 100% so when you replace the gear, you can just resell them. VI materias actually give a lot of stats(40 each) for how little they cost. Probably like 100k total for the full meld set and since you can move them around that's basically 100k to meld your gear now and all the gear you upgrade.

And I see what you mean, storm whatever. I just kinda look at it every now and then and once it's under 10secs I just calculate when's the next refresh(like next combo or the combo after). There is a spelltimers addon for ACT that does this kind of shit though, shows buff duration and what not as bars. Can't help you for configuring it but it shouldn't be that hard. Hell you could probably make a trigger for base ACT whenever it's been 20secs since you last applied it with an audio alert so you know when to refresh it.

ACT is a clunky piece of shit compared to wow mods, but it can do a lot of stuff for some shit that was made for EQ2.

Fennin · Jul 26, 2019

Here is the current hierarchy for jobs based off of the 95th percentile + raid contribution when considering maximum efficiency with raid buffs(rounded to nearest 100th):

1. Black Mage, 12.2k
2. Monk, 11.5k + r500
3. Dragoon, 11.1k +r500
4. Samurai, 11.4k
5. Summoner, 10.5k, +r400
6. Bard 10.5k, +r400
7. Machinist, 10.8k
8. Ninja, 9.4k +r1200
9. Red Mage, 10.1k, +r400
10. Dancer 8.9k, +r1500

1. Gunbreaker 6.8k
2. Paladin 6.8k
3. Warrior 6.6k
4. Dark Knight 6.6k

1. White Mage, 6.4k
2. Scholar, 5.4k, +r400
3. Astrologian, 4.7k, +r1000.

There are definitely a few outliers that need to be addressed.
-Black mage has too much potency for their added QoL changes. Reduce Potency.
-Melee are imbalanced with Monk and dragoon ahead of samurai, and ninja way behind. Slightly reduce monk and dragoon potency, increase samurai and ninja potency.
-Ranged dps are fairly balanced but dancer is a bit low on personal dps. Increase dancers individual potency.
-Red mage needs some potency buffs to get closer to summoner and black mage after the above changes.
-Tanks are the most balanced currently, possibly very slight potency increases to dark knight and warrior.
-White Mage potency is too high, slightly reduce white mage potency.

Jobs that need drastic QoL improvements: Astrologian, Ninja, Red Mage, Summoner.

Everything else would be very minor, outside of possibly summoner I don't see any drastic rotation changes happening like Stormblood.

Needless · Jul 26, 2019

khorum said:
The best part about that is the way they use that song at a very particular moment. We've heard that acoustic guitar version of that song for over a year now--in trailers and videos and shit--but the way they use it in that ONE moment makes it shine.

yeah definitely

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2019

Pyros said:
The thing about melding currently is if you don't have a lot of money, you can still buy the 15 or whatever materias you need as VI materias, they're pretty cheap, and they can be removed 100% so when you replace the gear, you can just resell them. VI materias actually give a lot of stats(40 each) for how little they cost. Probably like 100k total for the full meld set and since you can move them around that's basically 100k to meld your gear now and all the gear you upgrade.

And I see what you mean, storm whatever. I just kinda look at it every now and then and once it's under 10secs I just calculate when's the next refresh(like next combo or the combo after). There is a spelltimers addon for ACT that does this kind of shit though, shows buff duration and what not as bars. Can't help you for configuring it but it shouldn't be that hard. Hell you could probably make a trigger for base ACT whenever it's been 20secs since you last applied it with an audio alert so you know when to refresh it.

ACT is a clunky piece of shit compared to wow mods, but it can do a lot of stuff for some shit that was made for EQ2.

Cool thanks. I've barely used ACT so I was figuring it was just a DPS meter but I'm learning it's more.

I have a lot to learn about this game still, that's the unfortunate part.

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Final Fantasy XIV (Guide in first post)

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