Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,025
- 213,310
well shit, sparkles, looks like i have to agree with you for once. wtf big p!??
Fires of Heaven - The good, the bad, and the whatever else.
- Thread starter Taloo_sl
- Start date
Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 45,027
- 94,177
Is this the part where I go "not really" and you go "see you are because if you werent u wouldnt say that"?
Sure you needed like 1-2 maybe 3 good leaders/coordinators to manage each gaggle fuck but beyond that what skill or expertise was there in EQ? At most the only area were true "skill" could be shown is pulling, thats really it. Pretty much none of the fights in EQ had any challenge to them, 99% of them were just tank and spank and dodge the AE/reposte.
At that point it really comes down to who can assemble the most people the fastest, hence the ubiquitous showeq use and planting of lvl1s to watch spawns.
Chukzombi
Millie's Staff Member
- 72,025
- 213,310
are you talking about farming shit you already killed or exploring content for the first time with no handy spoilers? cause if you think any large raid could walk up to any endboss and the boss just falls over dead on the first go, then you never played everquest or if you did then you never left the noob zones.
Needless
Toe Sucker
- 9,247
- 3,311
Zastlyn
Peasant
- 233
- 34
I'm healing %t, Next healer in 10 seconds!
Also idk shit about WoW FoH but I played in a number 3/4 guild on Veeshan during those times too. I mainly played during the PoP era, which I'm still convinced was the coolest shit ever. Wiping at Corinav at 3am sucked though. Finally getting into PoTime and understanding furors 14 days rant.
Erronius
Macho Ma'am
- 16,541
- 42,546
My current sig and Astral Projection's trololol.
Even in 2014 that shit is still alive.
Even in 2014 that shit is still alive.
This actual 100% verified legitimate tweet pretty much sums it up.
Needless
Toe Sucker
- 9,247
- 3,311
Paranoia
Trakanon Raider
- 1,845
- 643
Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
- 28,330
- 43,182
BrutulTM
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
- 14,487
- 2,297
Uber Guild in EQ = 50 unemployed teenagers that never leave the house and have parents that don't give a fuck.
Top Tier Uber Guild in EQ = 50 unemployed teenagers that never leave the house and have parents that don't give a fuck plus 2-3 people with some leadership skill that have decided to devote their lives to a video game for some reason.
Top Tier Uber Guild in EQ = 50 unemployed teenagers that never leave the house and have parents that don't give a fuck plus 2-3 people with some leadership skill that have decided to devote their lives to a video game for some reason.
Eidal
Molten Core Raider
- 2,001
- 213
Truth.
Lol @ people in this thread implying that EQ raiding required skill. Whatever "skill" you speak of is substantially different than the "skill" required to be top tier LoL/CSGO gamer. Being logged in all the fucking time and turning autoattack on/off isn't skill, and thats 90 percent of the raid force.
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
- 6,599
- 793
Man it's like jumping into a time machine.
Remember when other guilds got a fair chance at doing the content and WIPED HORRIBLY? I don't understand - they got there first, they had all the time they wanted to prepare. Just go tank and spank bro.
Do you have any idea how many times FoH killed a raid mob that was standing on top of mountains of corpses? Or how many people who openly hated our guts thanked us when we recovered their bodies?
We're talking about guilds that took months of failure to bring down Vindicator, who was only up because we didn't give a shit. He was right there for anyone to kill - what's your excuse now?
If Everquest is so easy, then why do so many people suck at it? - Kreugen from the 1999 wayback machine
I've asked myself the same question for going on 15 years now. It's true for any game out there, but it becomes exponential with the more players working together that you need to succeed. Look at uber k/d CODbros failing horribly at Destiny because coop is so foreign to them. Every time I play WoW I am slack-jawed in stupefied amazement at how badly people still suck at a 10 year old game with content that has been static for 14 goddamn months. I'm like you, BP - I can't fathom how there is ANY excuse for that. Hell, Everquest had progression servers where with all the modern knowledge and hacking tools and multiboxing assists and nerfed content you have experienced players who STILL wipe to shit.
Yes, with the knowledge we have now, EQ is laughably easy. But we had to LEARN those things first. And we (FoH, Afterlife, et al) learned much faster than anyone else.
There are mother fuckers out there who can beat every fighter in punch-out except Tyson WITH A BLINDFOLD ON. Do you think he accomplished that the first time he picked up the game? If he can do it, you should be able to duplicate it within a few minutes, right?
PS: The answer to the EQ question is mostlylogistic skills. For example, our final prep for a raid mob was to form a line that buffers would run down to ensure everyone was freshly buffed and ready, plus tricks like "shit buffing" so that dispels didn't wipe out the good buffs first. How many guilds do you think figured that out in the first year or three or Everquest?
But it doesn't explain everything - like how a max level player manages to suck even in a small-group environment. How does that fit into your "just turn on autoattack" mantra?
Remember when other guilds got a fair chance at doing the content and WIPED HORRIBLY? I don't understand - they got there first, they had all the time they wanted to prepare. Just go tank and spank bro.
Do you have any idea how many times FoH killed a raid mob that was standing on top of mountains of corpses? Or how many people who openly hated our guts thanked us when we recovered their bodies?
We're talking about guilds that took months of failure to bring down Vindicator, who was only up because we didn't give a shit. He was right there for anyone to kill - what's your excuse now?
If Everquest is so easy, then why do so many people suck at it? - Kreugen from the 1999 wayback machine
I've asked myself the same question for going on 15 years now. It's true for any game out there, but it becomes exponential with the more players working together that you need to succeed. Look at uber k/d CODbros failing horribly at Destiny because coop is so foreign to them. Every time I play WoW I am slack-jawed in stupefied amazement at how badly people still suck at a 10 year old game with content that has been static for 14 goddamn months. I'm like you, BP - I can't fathom how there is ANY excuse for that. Hell, Everquest had progression servers where with all the modern knowledge and hacking tools and multiboxing assists and nerfed content you have experienced players who STILL wipe to shit.
Yes, with the knowledge we have now, EQ is laughably easy. But we had to LEARN those things first. And we (FoH, Afterlife, et al) learned much faster than anyone else.
There are mother fuckers out there who can beat every fighter in punch-out except Tyson WITH A BLINDFOLD ON. Do you think he accomplished that the first time he picked up the game? If he can do it, you should be able to duplicate it within a few minutes, right?
PS: The answer to the EQ question is mostlylogistic skills. For example, our final prep for a raid mob was to form a line that buffers would run down to ensure everyone was freshly buffed and ready, plus tricks like "shit buffing" so that dispels didn't wipe out the good buffs first. How many guilds do you think figured that out in the first year or three or Everquest?
But it doesn't explain everything - like how a max level player manages to suck even in a small-group environment. How does that fit into your "just turn on autoattack" mantra?
Lol at that sig, I never noticed it. Did Requiem really try to take on Furor at the end there?
Nirgon
YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
- 12,977
- 19,982
I say the same thing to all the people who don't get SHIT for pixels over at p99 say EQ is a game that requires no skill.
Few realize how high the ceiling for being a champion sociopath on an EQ server really is. Or what it really takes to "win" that game.
Unemployeds and the beards to lead them aside.
Jysin
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,290
- 4,056
I miss the old Naggy / Vox days where it required you to buff people one at a time and have them log out of the game and into server chat so their buffs didn't fade because it took so fucking long to get buffs on everyone with practically zero mana regen outside of clarity and basic bard songs. You would still see the scrubs zerg rushing with fading or no buffs and failing because of poor leadership.
alavaz
Trakanon Raider
- 2,001
- 713
EQ raids were just generally chaotic and in hindsight probably doable with raid sizes that were half or even 2/3rds the size if that force had stable hardware and sufficient knowledge of their class + the encounter mechanics. Even understanding aggro in EQ put you above and beyond the pack in the first 4 or so expansions. Shit I remember having tanks that just blew taunt on cool down thinking it was building aggro, losing the mob to a rogue or wizard and then not having taunt up to get it back before it ate through 2 or 3 people.
I also know for a fact that alot of the bloated 80 man raids we ran had probably a solid quarter of those people effectively doing nothing because all they saw was a slideshow. As a cleric I spent most raids staring at the ground and mashing a hide corpse npc macro. Take NToV as an example, most of the bosses were about effectively dodging the AE. The people with shit equipment (as in PCs and G cards not armor) generally were not able to do so and so they either spent the whole fight out of range or died pretty quickly.
I also know for a fact that alot of the bloated 80 man raids we ran had probably a solid quarter of those people effectively doing nothing because all they saw was a slideshow. As a cleric I spent most raids staring at the ground and mashing a hide corpse npc macro. Take NToV as an example, most of the bosses were about effectively dodging the AE. The people with shit equipment (as in PCs and G cards not armor) generally were not able to do so and so they either spent the whole fight out of range or died pretty quickly.
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
- 6,599
- 793
In the early early days, the real trick was having no more than 4 groups engage the mob. More than that and everyone around would go linkdead. So naturally we'd watch zergs of 50+ charge in and all disconnect. I believe the problem was two fold - no chat filters (you saw everything, even damage shield hits) and fear code turning dozens of people into pathing npcs. Anyway, it forced them to make net code changes and such, but for a while we had a hard rule of 4 group maximum and keeping low numbers stuck with us for a long time. (less numbers = better geared characters. Also share your account info, so that you gear is always being utilized) We were uniquely lean in the numbers we used and it FUCKED us in Plane of Time when suddenly they decided to tune for 72 goddamn characters right after we had legions of people quit after suffering months of bugs.
We also effectively taught other guilds how to raid in order to beef up for specific encounters that flat out required larger numbers.
We also effectively taught other guilds how to raid in order to beef up for specific encounters that flat out required larger numbers.