Christ, the guy stops a woman from being fucking drowned in public and people find something to criticize him about. You guys are totally fucking insane
Girls who broke your heart thread
- Thread starter Aychamo BanBan
- Start date
No shit. The type of thought process some of you people have boggles my mind. It speaks volumes about a persons character when you"re put in a position like that and you do the right thing. Speaks even more about a person"s character who criticize a person for helping someone out, regardless of their own safety.
All of your degrees of involvement barring the "call the cops from across the street" are the same level seriousness. That being a physical confrontation with a violent stranger.Alcestis said:
If you confront an angry violent man, about his angry violence. It is going to result in some more violence a vast majority of the time. The only thing that has to do with calculation is if you can out violence the idiot or intimidate them (you are with multiple people,ninja attack him,have a gun).
You good intentioned stupid bastard.
Many view risking ones life for strangers to be stupid by default. A very small percent of the population will risk themselves for others.
Spoilered for length. If this speech, by quite honestly one of the greatest American Patriots it has ever been my pleasure to pee on (I was 2, I concede), doesn"t immediately convince you that in that situation you would have done exactly what Brad did, there isn"t any hope for you.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:FOREWORD
On 5 April 1973 I delivered the James Forrestal Memorial Lecture to the Brigade of Midshipmen at my alma mater the United States Naval Academy. As the first half of the lecture, at the request of the midshipmen, I discussed freelance writing. This is the second half~
THE PRAGMATICS OF PATRIOTISM
In this complex world, science, the scientific method, and the consequences of the scientific method are central to everything the human race is doing and to wherever we are going. If we blow ourselves up we will do it by misapplication of science; if we manage to keep from blowing ourselves up, it will be through intelligent application of science. Science fiction is the only form of fiction which takes into account this central force in our lives and futures. Other sorts of fiction, if they notice science at all, simply deplore it-an attitude very chichi in the anti-intellectual atmosphere of today. But we will never get out of the mess we are in by wringing our hands.
Let me make one flat-footed prediction of the science-fiction type. Like all scenarios this one has assumptions-variables treated as constants. The primary assumption is that World War Three will hold off long enough-ten, twenty, thirty years-for this prediction to work out. . . plus a secondary assumption that the human race will not find some other way to blunder into ultimate disaster.
Prediction: In the immediate future-by that I mean in the course of the naval careers of the class of "73- there will be nuclear-powered, constant-boost spaceships-ships capable of going to Mars and back in a
couple of weeks-and these ships will be armed with Buck-Rogersish death rays. Despite all treaties now existing or still to be signed concerning the peaceful use of space, these spaceships will be used in warfare. Space navies will change beyond recognition our present methods of warfare and will control the political shape of the world for the foreseeable future. Furthermore-and still more important-these new spaceships will open the Solar System to colonization and will eventually open the rest of this Galaxy.
I did not say that the United States will have these ships. The present sorry state of our country does not permit me to make such a prediction. In the words of one of our most distinguished graduates in his The Influence of Sea Power on History: "Popular governments are not generally favorable to military expenditures, however necessary-"
Every military officer has had his nose rubbed in the wry truth of Admiral Mahan"s observation. I first found myself dismayed by it some forty years ago when I learned that I was expected to maintain the ship"s battery of USS ROPER in a state of combat readiness on an allowance of less than a dollar a day- with World War Two staring down our throats.
The United States is capable of developing such spaceships. But the mood today does not favor it. So I am unable to predict that we will be the nation to spend the necessary R&D money to build such ships.
(Addressed to a plebe midshipman)
Mister, how long is it to graduation?
Sixty-two days? Let"s make it closer than that. I have . . . 7.59, just short of eight bells. Assuming graduation for ten in the morning that gives.. . 5,320,860 seconds to graduation.. . and I have less than 960 seconds in which to say what I want to say.
(To the Brigade at large) Why are you here?
(To a second plebe)
Mister, why are you here?
Never mind, son; that"s a rhetorical question. You are here to become a naval officer. That"s why this Academy was founded. That is why all of you are here: to become naval officers. If that is not why you are here, you"ve made a bad mistake. But I speak to the overwhelming majority who understood the oath they took on becoming midshipmen and look forward to the day when they will renew that oath as commissioned officers.
But why would anyone want to become a naval officer?
In the present dismal state of our culture there is little prestige attached to serving your country; recent public opinion polls place military service far down the list.
It can"t be the pay. No one gets rich on Navy pay. Even a 4-star admiral is paid much less than top executives in other lines. As for lower ranks the typical naval officer finds himself throughout his career just catching up from the unexpected expenses connected with the last change of duty when another change of duty causes a new financial crisis. Then, when he is about fifty, he is passed over and retires. . . but he can"t really retire because he has two kids in college and one still to go. So he has to find a job . . . and discovers that jobs for men his age are scarce and usually don"t pay well.
Working conditions? You"ll spend half your life away from your family. Your working hours? "Six days shalt thou work and do all thou art able; the seventh the same, and pound on the cable." A forty-hour week is standard for civilians-but not for naval officers. You"ll work that forty-hour week but that"s just a starter. You"ll stand a night watch as well, and duty weekends. Then with every increase in grade your hours get longer-until at last you get a ship of your own and no longer stand watches. Instead you are on duty twenty-four hours a day.. . and you"ll sign your night order book with: "In case of doubt, do not hesitate to call me."
I don"t know the average week"s work for a naval officer but it is closer to sixty than to forty. I"m speaking of peacetime, of course. Under war conditions it is whatever hours are necessary-and sleep you grab when you can.
Why would anyone elect a career which is unappreciated, overworked, and underpaid? It can"t be just to wear a pretty uniform. There has to be a better reason.
As one drives through the bushveldt of East Africa it is easy to spot herds of baboons grazing on the ground. But not by looking at the ground. Instead you look up and spot the lookout, an adult male posted on a limb of a tree where he has a clear view all around him- which is why you can spot him; he has to be where he can see a leopard in time to give the alarm. On the ground a leopard can catch a baboon . . . but if a baboon is warned in time to reach the trees, he can outclimb a leopard.
The lookout is a young male assigned to that duty and there he will stay, until the bull of the herd sends up another male to relieve him.
Keep your eye on that baboon; we"ll be back to him. Today, in the United States, it is popular among selfstyled "intellectuals" to sneer at patriotism. They seem to think that it is axiomatic that any civilized man is a pacifist, and they treat the military profession with contempt. "Warmongers"-" Imperialists"- "Hired killers in uniform"-you have all heard such sneers and you will hear them again. One of their favorite quotations is: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
What they never mention is that the man who made that sneering wisecrack was a fat, gluttonous slob who was pursued all his life by a pathological fear of death.
I propose to prove that that baboon on watch is morally superior to that fat poltroon who made that wisecrack.
Patriotism is the most practical of all human characteristics.
But in the present decadent atmosphere patriots are often too shy to talk about it-as if it were something shameful or an irrational weakness.
But patriotism is not sentimental nonsense. Nor something dreamed up by demagogues. Patriotism is as necessary a part of man"s evolutionary equipment as are his eyes, as useful to the race as eyes are to the individual.
A man who is not patriotic is an evolutionary dead end. This is not sentiment but the hardest sort of logic.
To prove that patriotism is a necessity we must go back to fundamentals. Take any breed of animal-for example, tyrannosaurus rex. What is the most basic thing about him? The answer is that tyrannosaurus rex is dead, gone, extinct.
Now take homo sapiens. The first fact about him is that he is not extinct, he is alive.
Which brings us to the second fundamental question: Will homo sapiens stay alive? Will he survive?
We can answer part of that at once: Individually h. sapiens will not survive. It is unlikely that anyone here tonight will be alive eighty years from now; it approaches mathematical certainty that we will all be dead a hundred years from now as even the youngest plebe here would be 118 years old then-if still alive.
Some men do live that long but the percentage is so microscopic as not to matter. Recent advances in biology suggest that human life may be extended to a century and a quarter, even a century and a half-but this will create more problems than it solves. When a man reaches my age or thereabouts, the last great service he can perform is to die and get out of the way of younger people.
Very well, as individuals we all die. This brings us to the second half of the question: Does homo sapiens as a breed have to die? The answer is: No, it is not unavoidable.
We have two situations, mutually exclusive: Mankind surviving, and mankind extinct. With respect to morality, the second situation is a null class. An extinct breed has no behavior, moral or otherwise.
Since survival is the sine qua non, I now define "moral behavior" as "behavior that tends toward survival." I won"t argue with philosophers or theologians who choose to use the word "moral" to mean something else, but I do not think anyone can define "behavior that tends toward extinction" as being "moral" without stretching the word "moral" all out of shape.
We are now ready to observe the hierarchy of moral behavior from its lowest level to its highest.
The simplest form of moral behavior occurs when a man or other animal fights for his own survival. Do not belittle such behavior as being merely selfish. Of course it is selfish . . . but selfishness is the bedrock on which all moral behavior starts and it can be immoral only when it conflicts with a higher moral imperative. An animal so poor in spirit that he won"t even fight on his own behalf is already an evolutionary dead end; the best he can do for his breed is to crawl off and die, and not pass on his defective genes.
The next higher level is to work, fight, and sometimes die for your own immediate family. This is the level at which six pounds of mother cat can be so fierce that she"ll drive off a police dog. It is the level at which a father takes a moonlighting job to keep his kids in college-and the level at which a mother or father dives into a flood to save a drowning child. . . and it is still moral behavior even when it fails.
The next higher level is to work, fight, and sometimes die for a group larger than the unit family-an extended family, a herd, a tribe-and take another look at that baboon on watch; he"s at that moral level. I don"t think baboon language is complex enough to permit them to discuss such abstract notions as "morality" or "duty" or "loyalty"-but it is evident that baboons do operate morally and do exhibit the traits of duty and loyalty; we see them in action. Call it "instinct" if you like-but remember that assigning a name to a phenomenon does not explain it.
But that baboon behavior can be explained in evolutionary terms. Evolution is a process that never stops. Baboons who fail to exhibit moral behavior do not survive; they wind up as meat for leopards. Every baboon generation has to pass this examination in moral behavior; those who bilge it don"t have progeny. Perhaps the old bull of the tribe gives lessons . . . but the leopard decides who graduates-and there is no appeal from his decision. We don"t have to understand the details to observe the outcome: Baboons behave morally-for baboons.
The next level in moral behavior higher than that exhibited by the baboon is that in which duty and loyalty are shown toward a group of your own kind too large for an individual to know all of them. We have a name for that. It is called "patriotism."
Behaving on a still higher moral level were the astronauts who went to the Moon, for their actions tend toward the survival of the entire race of mankind. The door they opened leads to the hope that h. sapiens will survive indefinitely long, even longer than this solid planet on which we stand tonight. As a direct result of what they did, it is now possible that the human race will never die.
Many short-sighted fools think that going to the Moon was just a stunt. But the astronauts knew the meaning of what they were doing, as is shown by Neil Armstrong"s first words in stepping down onto the soil of Luna: "One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."
Let us note proudly that eleven of the Astronaut Corps are graduates of this our school.
And let me add that James Forrestal was the first high-ranking Federal official to come out flatly for space travel.
I must pause to brush off those parlor pacifists I mentioned earlier . . . for they contend that their actions are on this highest moral level. They want to put a stop to war; they say so. Their purpose is to save the human race from killing itself off; they say that too. Anyone who disagrees with them must be a bloodthirsty scoundrel-and they"ll tell you that to your face.
I won"t waste time trying to judge their motives; my criticism is of their mental processes: Their heads aren"t screwed on tight. They live in a world of fantasy.
Let me stipulate that, if the human race managed its affairs sensibly, we could do without war.
Yes-and if pigs had wings, they could fly.
I don"t know what planet those pious pacifists are talking about but it can"t be the third one out from the Sun. Anyone who has seen the Far East-or Africa-or the Middle East-knows or certainly should know that there is no chance of abolishing war in the foreseeable future. In the past few years I have been around the world three times, traveled in most of the communist countries, visited many of the so-called emerging countries, plus many trips to Europe and to South America; I saw nothing that cheered me as to the prospects for peace. The seeds of war are everywhere; the conflicts of interest are real and deep, and will not be abolished by pious platitudes.
The best we can hope for is a precarious balance of power among the nations capable of waging total war-while endless lesser wars break out here and there.
I won"t belabor this. Our campuses are loaded with custard-headed pacifists but the yard of the Naval Academy is one place where I will not encounter them. We are in agreement that the United States still needs a navy, that the Republic will always have need for heroes-else you would not be here tonight and in uniform.
Patriotism- Moral behavior at the national level. Non sibi sed Patria. Nathan Hale"s last words: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Torpedo Squadron Eight making its suicidal attack. Four chaplains standing fast while the water rises around them. Thomas Jefferson saying, "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots-" A submarine skipper giving the order "Take her down!" while he himself is still topside. Jonas Ingram standing on the steps of Bancroft Hall and shouting, "The Navy has no place for good losers! The Navy needs tough sons of bitches who can go out there and win!"
Patriotism- An abstract word used to describe a type of behavior as harshly practical as good brakes and good tires. It means that you place the welfare of your nation ahead of your own even if it costs you your life.
Men who go down to the sea in ships have long had another way of expressing the same moral behavior tagged by the abstract expression "patriotism." Spelled out in simple Anglo-Saxon words "Patriotism" reads "Women and children first!"
And that is the moral result of realizing a self-evident biological fact: Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and goon. . . as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you"ve had it, you"re done, you"re through! You join tyrannosaurus rex, one more breed that bilged its final test.
I must amplify that. I know that women can fight and often have. I have known many a tough old grandmother I would rather have at my side in a tight spot than any number of pseudo-males who disdain military service. My wife put in three years and a butt active duty in World War Two, plus ten years reserve, and I am proud-very proud!-of her naval service. I am proud of every one of our women in uniform; they are a shining example to us men.
Nevertheless, as a mathematical proposition in the facts of biology, children, and women of child-bearing age, are the ultimate treasure that we must save. Every human culture is based on "Women and children first"-and any attempt to do it any other way leads quickly to extinction.
Possibly extinction is the way we are headed. Great nations have died in the past; it can happen to us.
Nor am I certain how good our chances are. To me it seems self-evident that any nation that loses its patriotic fervor is on the skids. Without that indispensable survival factor the end is only a matter of time. I don"t know how deeply the rot has penetrated-but it seems to me that there has been a change for the worse in the last fifty years. Possibly I am misled by the offensive behavior of a noisy but unimportant minority. But it does seem to me that patriotism has lost its grip on a large percentage of our people.
I hope I am wrong. . . because if my fears are well grounded, I would not bet two cents on this nation"s chance of lasting even to the end of this century.
But there is no way to force patriotism on anyone. Passing a law will not create it, nor can we buy it by appropriating so many billions of dollars.
You gentlemen of the Brigade are most fortunate. You are going to a school where this basic moral virtue is daily reinforced by precept and example. It is not enough to know what Charlie Noble does for a living, or what makes the wildcat wild, or which BatDiv failed to splice the main brace and why-nor to learn matrix algebra and navigation and ballistics and aerodynamics and nuclear engineering. These things are merely the working tools of your profession and could be learned elsewhere; they do not require "four years together by the Bay where Severn joins the tide."
What you do have here is a tradition of service. Your most important classroom is Memorial Hall. Your most important lesson is the way you feel inside when you walk up those steps and see that shot-torn flag framed in the arch of the door: "Don"t Give Up the Ship."
If you feel nothing, you don"t belong here. But if it gives you goose flesh just to see that old battle flag, then you are going to find that feeling increasing every time you return here over the years . . . until it reabhes a crescendo the day you return and read the list of your own honored dead-classmates, shipmates, friends- read them with grief and pride while you try to keep your tears silent.
The time has come for me to stop. I said that "Patriotism" is a way of saying "Women and children first." And that no one can force a man to feel this way. Instead he must embrace it freely. I want to tell about one such man. He wore no uniform and no one knows his name, or where he came from; all we know is what he did.
In my home town sixty years ago when I was a child, my mother and father used to take me and my brothers and sisters out to Swope Park on Sunday afternoons. It was a wonderful place for kids, with picnic grounds and lakes and a zoo. But a railroad line cut straight through it.
One Sunday afternoon a young married couple were crossing these tracks. She apparently did not watch her step, for she managed to catch her foot in the frog of a switch to a siding and could not pull it free. Her husband stopped to help her.
But try as they might they could not get her foot loose. While they were working at it, a tramp showed up, walking the ties. He joined the husband in trying to pull the young woman"s foot loose. No luck-
Out of sight around the curve a train whistled. Perhaps there would have been time to run and flag it down, perhaps not. In any case both men went right ahead trying to pull her free . . . and the train hit them.
The wife was killed, the husband was mortally injured and died later, the tramp was killed-and testimony showed that neither man made the slightest effort to save himself.
The husband"s behavior was heroic . . but what we expect of a husband toward his wife: his right, and his proud privilege, to die for his woman. But what of this nameless stranger? Up to the very last second he could have jumped clear. He did not. He was still trying to save this woman he had never seen before in his life, right up to the very instant the train killed him. And that"s all we"ll ever know about him.
This is how a man dies.
This is how a man .. . lives!
"They shall not grow old
as we that are left grow old, age
shall not wither them
nor the years condemn;
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning,
we shall remember them .
-Tomb of the
Scottish Unknown Soldier
Edinburgh
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:FOREWORD
On 5 April 1973 I delivered the James Forrestal Memorial Lecture to the Brigade of Midshipmen at my alma mater the United States Naval Academy. As the first half of the lecture, at the request of the midshipmen, I discussed freelance writing. This is the second half~
THE PRAGMATICS OF PATRIOTISM
In this complex world, science, the scientific method, and the consequences of the scientific method are central to everything the human race is doing and to wherever we are going. If we blow ourselves up we will do it by misapplication of science; if we manage to keep from blowing ourselves up, it will be through intelligent application of science. Science fiction is the only form of fiction which takes into account this central force in our lives and futures. Other sorts of fiction, if they notice science at all, simply deplore it-an attitude very chichi in the anti-intellectual atmosphere of today. But we will never get out of the mess we are in by wringing our hands.
Let me make one flat-footed prediction of the science-fiction type. Like all scenarios this one has assumptions-variables treated as constants. The primary assumption is that World War Three will hold off long enough-ten, twenty, thirty years-for this prediction to work out. . . plus a secondary assumption that the human race will not find some other way to blunder into ultimate disaster.
Prediction: In the immediate future-by that I mean in the course of the naval careers of the class of "73- there will be nuclear-powered, constant-boost spaceships-ships capable of going to Mars and back in a
couple of weeks-and these ships will be armed with Buck-Rogersish death rays. Despite all treaties now existing or still to be signed concerning the peaceful use of space, these spaceships will be used in warfare. Space navies will change beyond recognition our present methods of warfare and will control the political shape of the world for the foreseeable future. Furthermore-and still more important-these new spaceships will open the Solar System to colonization and will eventually open the rest of this Galaxy.
I did not say that the United States will have these ships. The present sorry state of our country does not permit me to make such a prediction. In the words of one of our most distinguished graduates in his The Influence of Sea Power on History: "Popular governments are not generally favorable to military expenditures, however necessary-"
Every military officer has had his nose rubbed in the wry truth of Admiral Mahan"s observation. I first found myself dismayed by it some forty years ago when I learned that I was expected to maintain the ship"s battery of USS ROPER in a state of combat readiness on an allowance of less than a dollar a day- with World War Two staring down our throats.
The United States is capable of developing such spaceships. But the mood today does not favor it. So I am unable to predict that we will be the nation to spend the necessary R&D money to build such ships.
(Addressed to a plebe midshipman)
Mister, how long is it to graduation?
Sixty-two days? Let"s make it closer than that. I have . . . 7.59, just short of eight bells. Assuming graduation for ten in the morning that gives.. . 5,320,860 seconds to graduation.. . and I have less than 960 seconds in which to say what I want to say.
(To the Brigade at large) Why are you here?
(To a second plebe)
Mister, why are you here?
Never mind, son; that"s a rhetorical question. You are here to become a naval officer. That"s why this Academy was founded. That is why all of you are here: to become naval officers. If that is not why you are here, you"ve made a bad mistake. But I speak to the overwhelming majority who understood the oath they took on becoming midshipmen and look forward to the day when they will renew that oath as commissioned officers.
But why would anyone want to become a naval officer?
In the present dismal state of our culture there is little prestige attached to serving your country; recent public opinion polls place military service far down the list.
It can"t be the pay. No one gets rich on Navy pay. Even a 4-star admiral is paid much less than top executives in other lines. As for lower ranks the typical naval officer finds himself throughout his career just catching up from the unexpected expenses connected with the last change of duty when another change of duty causes a new financial crisis. Then, when he is about fifty, he is passed over and retires. . . but he can"t really retire because he has two kids in college and one still to go. So he has to find a job . . . and discovers that jobs for men his age are scarce and usually don"t pay well.
Working conditions? You"ll spend half your life away from your family. Your working hours? "Six days shalt thou work and do all thou art able; the seventh the same, and pound on the cable." A forty-hour week is standard for civilians-but not for naval officers. You"ll work that forty-hour week but that"s just a starter. You"ll stand a night watch as well, and duty weekends. Then with every increase in grade your hours get longer-until at last you get a ship of your own and no longer stand watches. Instead you are on duty twenty-four hours a day.. . and you"ll sign your night order book with: "In case of doubt, do not hesitate to call me."
I don"t know the average week"s work for a naval officer but it is closer to sixty than to forty. I"m speaking of peacetime, of course. Under war conditions it is whatever hours are necessary-and sleep you grab when you can.
Why would anyone elect a career which is unappreciated, overworked, and underpaid? It can"t be just to wear a pretty uniform. There has to be a better reason.
As one drives through the bushveldt of East Africa it is easy to spot herds of baboons grazing on the ground. But not by looking at the ground. Instead you look up and spot the lookout, an adult male posted on a limb of a tree where he has a clear view all around him- which is why you can spot him; he has to be where he can see a leopard in time to give the alarm. On the ground a leopard can catch a baboon . . . but if a baboon is warned in time to reach the trees, he can outclimb a leopard.
The lookout is a young male assigned to that duty and there he will stay, until the bull of the herd sends up another male to relieve him.
Keep your eye on that baboon; we"ll be back to him. Today, in the United States, it is popular among selfstyled "intellectuals" to sneer at patriotism. They seem to think that it is axiomatic that any civilized man is a pacifist, and they treat the military profession with contempt. "Warmongers"-" Imperialists"- "Hired killers in uniform"-you have all heard such sneers and you will hear them again. One of their favorite quotations is: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
What they never mention is that the man who made that sneering wisecrack was a fat, gluttonous slob who was pursued all his life by a pathological fear of death.
I propose to prove that that baboon on watch is morally superior to that fat poltroon who made that wisecrack.
Patriotism is the most practical of all human characteristics.
But in the present decadent atmosphere patriots are often too shy to talk about it-as if it were something shameful or an irrational weakness.
But patriotism is not sentimental nonsense. Nor something dreamed up by demagogues. Patriotism is as necessary a part of man"s evolutionary equipment as are his eyes, as useful to the race as eyes are to the individual.
A man who is not patriotic is an evolutionary dead end. This is not sentiment but the hardest sort of logic.
To prove that patriotism is a necessity we must go back to fundamentals. Take any breed of animal-for example, tyrannosaurus rex. What is the most basic thing about him? The answer is that tyrannosaurus rex is dead, gone, extinct.
Now take homo sapiens. The first fact about him is that he is not extinct, he is alive.
Which brings us to the second fundamental question: Will homo sapiens stay alive? Will he survive?
We can answer part of that at once: Individually h. sapiens will not survive. It is unlikely that anyone here tonight will be alive eighty years from now; it approaches mathematical certainty that we will all be dead a hundred years from now as even the youngest plebe here would be 118 years old then-if still alive.
Some men do live that long but the percentage is so microscopic as not to matter. Recent advances in biology suggest that human life may be extended to a century and a quarter, even a century and a half-but this will create more problems than it solves. When a man reaches my age or thereabouts, the last great service he can perform is to die and get out of the way of younger people.
Very well, as individuals we all die. This brings us to the second half of the question: Does homo sapiens as a breed have to die? The answer is: No, it is not unavoidable.
We have two situations, mutually exclusive: Mankind surviving, and mankind extinct. With respect to morality, the second situation is a null class. An extinct breed has no behavior, moral or otherwise.
Since survival is the sine qua non, I now define "moral behavior" as "behavior that tends toward survival." I won"t argue with philosophers or theologians who choose to use the word "moral" to mean something else, but I do not think anyone can define "behavior that tends toward extinction" as being "moral" without stretching the word "moral" all out of shape.
We are now ready to observe the hierarchy of moral behavior from its lowest level to its highest.
The simplest form of moral behavior occurs when a man or other animal fights for his own survival. Do not belittle such behavior as being merely selfish. Of course it is selfish . . . but selfishness is the bedrock on which all moral behavior starts and it can be immoral only when it conflicts with a higher moral imperative. An animal so poor in spirit that he won"t even fight on his own behalf is already an evolutionary dead end; the best he can do for his breed is to crawl off and die, and not pass on his defective genes.
The next higher level is to work, fight, and sometimes die for your own immediate family. This is the level at which six pounds of mother cat can be so fierce that she"ll drive off a police dog. It is the level at which a father takes a moonlighting job to keep his kids in college-and the level at which a mother or father dives into a flood to save a drowning child. . . and it is still moral behavior even when it fails.
The next higher level is to work, fight, and sometimes die for a group larger than the unit family-an extended family, a herd, a tribe-and take another look at that baboon on watch; he"s at that moral level. I don"t think baboon language is complex enough to permit them to discuss such abstract notions as "morality" or "duty" or "loyalty"-but it is evident that baboons do operate morally and do exhibit the traits of duty and loyalty; we see them in action. Call it "instinct" if you like-but remember that assigning a name to a phenomenon does not explain it.
But that baboon behavior can be explained in evolutionary terms. Evolution is a process that never stops. Baboons who fail to exhibit moral behavior do not survive; they wind up as meat for leopards. Every baboon generation has to pass this examination in moral behavior; those who bilge it don"t have progeny. Perhaps the old bull of the tribe gives lessons . . . but the leopard decides who graduates-and there is no appeal from his decision. We don"t have to understand the details to observe the outcome: Baboons behave morally-for baboons.
The next level in moral behavior higher than that exhibited by the baboon is that in which duty and loyalty are shown toward a group of your own kind too large for an individual to know all of them. We have a name for that. It is called "patriotism."
Behaving on a still higher moral level were the astronauts who went to the Moon, for their actions tend toward the survival of the entire race of mankind. The door they opened leads to the hope that h. sapiens will survive indefinitely long, even longer than this solid planet on which we stand tonight. As a direct result of what they did, it is now possible that the human race will never die.
Many short-sighted fools think that going to the Moon was just a stunt. But the astronauts knew the meaning of what they were doing, as is shown by Neil Armstrong"s first words in stepping down onto the soil of Luna: "One small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind."
Let us note proudly that eleven of the Astronaut Corps are graduates of this our school.
And let me add that James Forrestal was the first high-ranking Federal official to come out flatly for space travel.
I must pause to brush off those parlor pacifists I mentioned earlier . . . for they contend that their actions are on this highest moral level. They want to put a stop to war; they say so. Their purpose is to save the human race from killing itself off; they say that too. Anyone who disagrees with them must be a bloodthirsty scoundrel-and they"ll tell you that to your face.
I won"t waste time trying to judge their motives; my criticism is of their mental processes: Their heads aren"t screwed on tight. They live in a world of fantasy.
Let me stipulate that, if the human race managed its affairs sensibly, we could do without war.
Yes-and if pigs had wings, they could fly.
I don"t know what planet those pious pacifists are talking about but it can"t be the third one out from the Sun. Anyone who has seen the Far East-or Africa-or the Middle East-knows or certainly should know that there is no chance of abolishing war in the foreseeable future. In the past few years I have been around the world three times, traveled in most of the communist countries, visited many of the so-called emerging countries, plus many trips to Europe and to South America; I saw nothing that cheered me as to the prospects for peace. The seeds of war are everywhere; the conflicts of interest are real and deep, and will not be abolished by pious platitudes.
The best we can hope for is a precarious balance of power among the nations capable of waging total war-while endless lesser wars break out here and there.
I won"t belabor this. Our campuses are loaded with custard-headed pacifists but the yard of the Naval Academy is one place where I will not encounter them. We are in agreement that the United States still needs a navy, that the Republic will always have need for heroes-else you would not be here tonight and in uniform.
Patriotism- Moral behavior at the national level. Non sibi sed Patria. Nathan Hale"s last words: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." Torpedo Squadron Eight making its suicidal attack. Four chaplains standing fast while the water rises around them. Thomas Jefferson saying, "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots-" A submarine skipper giving the order "Take her down!" while he himself is still topside. Jonas Ingram standing on the steps of Bancroft Hall and shouting, "The Navy has no place for good losers! The Navy needs tough sons of bitches who can go out there and win!"
Patriotism- An abstract word used to describe a type of behavior as harshly practical as good brakes and good tires. It means that you place the welfare of your nation ahead of your own even if it costs you your life.
Men who go down to the sea in ships have long had another way of expressing the same moral behavior tagged by the abstract expression "patriotism." Spelled out in simple Anglo-Saxon words "Patriotism" reads "Women and children first!"
And that is the moral result of realizing a self-evident biological fact: Men are expendable; women and children are not. A tribe or a nation can lose a high percentage of its men and still pick up the pieces and goon. . . as long as the women and children are saved. But if you fail to save the women and children, you"ve had it, you"re done, you"re through! You join tyrannosaurus rex, one more breed that bilged its final test.
I must amplify that. I know that women can fight and often have. I have known many a tough old grandmother I would rather have at my side in a tight spot than any number of pseudo-males who disdain military service. My wife put in three years and a butt active duty in World War Two, plus ten years reserve, and I am proud-very proud!-of her naval service. I am proud of every one of our women in uniform; they are a shining example to us men.
Nevertheless, as a mathematical proposition in the facts of biology, children, and women of child-bearing age, are the ultimate treasure that we must save. Every human culture is based on "Women and children first"-and any attempt to do it any other way leads quickly to extinction.
Possibly extinction is the way we are headed. Great nations have died in the past; it can happen to us.
Nor am I certain how good our chances are. To me it seems self-evident that any nation that loses its patriotic fervor is on the skids. Without that indispensable survival factor the end is only a matter of time. I don"t know how deeply the rot has penetrated-but it seems to me that there has been a change for the worse in the last fifty years. Possibly I am misled by the offensive behavior of a noisy but unimportant minority. But it does seem to me that patriotism has lost its grip on a large percentage of our people.
I hope I am wrong. . . because if my fears are well grounded, I would not bet two cents on this nation"s chance of lasting even to the end of this century.
But there is no way to force patriotism on anyone. Passing a law will not create it, nor can we buy it by appropriating so many billions of dollars.
You gentlemen of the Brigade are most fortunate. You are going to a school where this basic moral virtue is daily reinforced by precept and example. It is not enough to know what Charlie Noble does for a living, or what makes the wildcat wild, or which BatDiv failed to splice the main brace and why-nor to learn matrix algebra and navigation and ballistics and aerodynamics and nuclear engineering. These things are merely the working tools of your profession and could be learned elsewhere; they do not require "four years together by the Bay where Severn joins the tide."
What you do have here is a tradition of service. Your most important classroom is Memorial Hall. Your most important lesson is the way you feel inside when you walk up those steps and see that shot-torn flag framed in the arch of the door: "Don"t Give Up the Ship."
If you feel nothing, you don"t belong here. But if it gives you goose flesh just to see that old battle flag, then you are going to find that feeling increasing every time you return here over the years . . . until it reabhes a crescendo the day you return and read the list of your own honored dead-classmates, shipmates, friends- read them with grief and pride while you try to keep your tears silent.
The time has come for me to stop. I said that "Patriotism" is a way of saying "Women and children first." And that no one can force a man to feel this way. Instead he must embrace it freely. I want to tell about one such man. He wore no uniform and no one knows his name, or where he came from; all we know is what he did.
In my home town sixty years ago when I was a child, my mother and father used to take me and my brothers and sisters out to Swope Park on Sunday afternoons. It was a wonderful place for kids, with picnic grounds and lakes and a zoo. But a railroad line cut straight through it.
One Sunday afternoon a young married couple were crossing these tracks. She apparently did not watch her step, for she managed to catch her foot in the frog of a switch to a siding and could not pull it free. Her husband stopped to help her.
But try as they might they could not get her foot loose. While they were working at it, a tramp showed up, walking the ties. He joined the husband in trying to pull the young woman"s foot loose. No luck-
Out of sight around the curve a train whistled. Perhaps there would have been time to run and flag it down, perhaps not. In any case both men went right ahead trying to pull her free . . . and the train hit them.
The wife was killed, the husband was mortally injured and died later, the tramp was killed-and testimony showed that neither man made the slightest effort to save himself.
The husband"s behavior was heroic . . but what we expect of a husband toward his wife: his right, and his proud privilege, to die for his woman. But what of this nameless stranger? Up to the very last second he could have jumped clear. He did not. He was still trying to save this woman he had never seen before in his life, right up to the very instant the train killed him. And that"s all we"ll ever know about him.
This is how a man dies.
This is how a man .. . lives!
"They shall not grow old
as we that are left grow old, age
shall not wither them
nor the years condemn;
At the going down of the sun
and in the morning,
we shall remember them .
-Tomb of the
Scottish Unknown Soldier
Edinburgh
Zehnpai
Molten Core Raider
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- 1,245
Alright, I"m going to set aside my normal cavalier attitude as this is a somewhat serious subject. All I wanted to do was quote Bill Burr, not get crucified because apparently I"m some spawn of Satan. Not since Pren accused me of scratching my asshole have I felt this misrepresented.
My statement was mostly in regards to domestic violence which I deal with on occasion (all I read was something about punching and biting). It"s -much- better for the victim for you to -not- get involved beyond calling the authorities. It"s not just about personal sacrifice or putting yourself in harms way for someone else at that point.
And regardless, that doesn"t change the fact that he got lucky that the situation didn"t spiral. For all you know this crazy drunk mexican has a gun in his car. Violent emotional people do (drumroll please) violent emotional things, especially when drunk.
Did it work out? For the most part. I don"t think I need to explain how domestic abuse works. Abusive guys are pretty good at convincing the girl it"s their fault so they stick with them. She"s probably going to get the shit kicked out of her later and the guys added anger at Brad intervening is going to get deflected onto her as an additional beating.
At least she"s not dead. Hurray for the good guys I suppose.
First off, as I said earlier I kinda glossed over the whole thing since reading posts by Brad causes me physical pain. I didn"t see the part about the drowning until later. That makes it pretty clear cut. Intervene or the lady dies doesn"t leave much wiggle room if you"re of noble persuasion.Aztlan said:
My statement was mostly in regards to domestic violence which I deal with on occasion (all I read was something about punching and biting). It"s -much- better for the victim for you to -not- get involved beyond calling the authorities. It"s not just about personal sacrifice or putting yourself in harms way for someone else at that point.
And regardless, that doesn"t change the fact that he got lucky that the situation didn"t spiral. For all you know this crazy drunk mexican has a gun in his car. Violent emotional people do (drumroll please) violent emotional things, especially when drunk.
Did it work out? For the most part. I don"t think I need to explain how domestic abuse works. Abusive guys are pretty good at convincing the girl it"s their fault so they stick with them. She"s probably going to get the shit kicked out of her later and the guys added anger at Brad intervening is going to get deflected onto her as an additional beating.
At least she"s not dead. Hurray for the good guys I suppose.
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 7,489
- 106
What"s wrong with criticizing someone for doing something? It"s not like we"re insulting him, just saying he probably could have died in that situation and I highly doubt the cholo was going to kill his girlfriend out in public with everyone watching. The best thing he could have done was just called the cops and let them handle it. The sad part is no matter how much you want to be a super hero if that person being drown doesn"t want to change their life, you white knighting it isn"t going to make a difference it"s only going to get you hurt in the end. I respect him for what he did because I love superheros but he isn"t impervious to knives and bullets and Brad seems to love confrontations and it"s going to catch up to him awfully soon if he keeps trying to "stand up" to the wrong people.Dabamf said:
Had this been a situation where the girl was being mugged, raped, or one of the many violent acts of crime that happens everyday and he stopped the antagonist then I would give him a high five(albeit it would have probably been even more dangerous, but at least his efforts wouldn"t be in vain). But sometimes it just takes getting punched in the face and drown out in public to realize that your boyfriend isn"t good for you.
ToeMissile
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 2,710
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It"s not the responsibility of Brad or anyone else what the woman chooses to do once she has the opportunity to ditch the asshole making her life miserable. I understand the chances of the woman doing so are fairly slim, but that doesn"t negate what should be a sense of responsibility to help someone in need. People in general are so jaded and self centered these days.
I also understand what people are basically saying about personal risk assessment, but besides Brad"s short description of the situation, we don"t know what it looked while like in progress. In a moment like that you don"t know how long it will take the police to arrive, or if the dude was going to drag her away at any minute and finish her off. If he"s willing to practically drown someone in public, what will he do behind closed doors?
With the limited view of the situation presented, the only thing you can definitely say could/should have been done differently is to get some other bystander to go with him to confront se?or voy-a-drown-this-bitch.
I also understand what people are basically saying about personal risk assessment, but besides Brad"s short description of the situation, we don"t know what it looked while like in progress. In a moment like that you don"t know how long it will take the police to arrive, or if the dude was going to drag her away at any minute and finish her off. If he"s willing to practically drown someone in public, what will he do behind closed doors?
With the limited view of the situation presented, the only thing you can definitely say could/should have been done differently is to get some other bystander to go with him to confront se?or voy-a-drown-this-bitch.
Eomer
Trakanon Raider
- 5,472
- 272
Saw her a couple times on Thursday, but from a distance and I didn"t go over to chat since I was standing in a line. Haven"t seen her again, although I may today. A couple texts were exchanged but that"s about it. Also saw Brit, she came up and we chatted for a bit, was nice to see her if only because she"s the stereotypical charming english girl. Ran in to Chantal as well, can"t remember what name I had used for her, but the chick from my bro"s wedding. Only saw her in passing, didn"t have a chance to say anything but "hi!" and think to myself "damn she"s still super hot." But overall there"s a ton of hot ass floating around at the Folk Fest, been another fun year. I think I"m supposed to go paddle boating with a girl next weekend, but I"m not clear on that.Shanter said:
A bunch of drama got stirred up yesterday though. I think I mentioned a couple weeks back only in passing that another long term friend had become available and I was thinking of pursuing it to some extent. Pretty much every single mutual friend has been asking if anything was going to happen, because we"ve been involved in the past (were each other"s "firsts" back in highschool but never really dated) and get along really well. Long story short, found out last night that one of my best friends fucked her a month ago, literally an hour after her and I had chatted about possibly giving things a try.
Mostly just offended that the two of them kept it from me for as long as they did, and that pretty much all my boys knew and didn"t tell me. I dunno, I felt betrayed by the circumstances mostly, I didn"t/don"t have any huge romantic feelings for her and frankly wouldn"t have cared much had I known about it right after it happened.
Also pissed that it came up during the middle of the funnest night of the Fest. I was feeling really good about life up to that point and having a good time meeting people and there were more than a few quality girls hanging out with our group. But once that shit came to light my mojo for the night flew out the door and the last thing I wanted to do was flirt with people.
Brad: Good job, but you were hella stupid. Heroes have a very low life expectancy rate for a reason. If you have a digital camera in your phone I would get some evidence and call the cops next time. With a beating on film with eyewitness testimony they could at least lock the violent fucker up for a few years for assault.
Brad2770
Avatar of War Slayer
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- 16,408
Ok, there are details I left out because I honestly didnt think this story would be a big deal, I was only commenting on my evening with Julie and that was a point of interest.ToeMissile said:
We went to the lake about 1pm. We swam for about 4 and 1/2 hours and Julie was ready to go, but her 3 daughters (a 9 year old and 7 year old twins- All from her only husband.... who she left because he beat her) and my son wanted to stay, so I convinced her to stay. Then we started seeing what I described before. He hit her in the face, held her underwater for about 10 seconds before I started in that direction. He let go with one arm when he saw me coming and was speaking Spanish at first. I "yelled" that his ass better hope he speaks English or I was going to start with an "ass whoopin" first so he would understand. I get in his face and tell him to leave her alone. He is still holding her other arm, but paying attention to me, telling me its none of my business/concern. I tell him it is my concern when he is hitting/drowning a woman (a lot of this repeated several times).
This was about 30 seconds of yelling and 2 younger guys swam up behind us. Probably early 20"s. They said they saw everything and would watch the guy if I would go call the cops.
Julie was in the process of herding the kids out of the water, because if something did happen, we didnt want them to see, so i got out of the water and I initiated the call to the cops, but as soon as I started talking to the 911 operator, he started smacking her and pushing her underwater again and the 2 young men kind of backed away, not doing shit. I told the operator I needed to go to help her again and she said I needed to stay on the phone until the police get there. I told her I wasnt going to watch this happen and set the phone down and ran towards the water. The guy let go of the woman, and told me that I was now in trouble with him, his Uncle (who was in the army) and his cousins. He got out of the water, made a phone call to someone (speaking in spanish.... and Julie doesnt know spanish) and then started yelling things to the woman, who was still in the water, in spanish.
He started walking to the parking lot and I got in his face again. I told him that he was sticking around to answer for what he had done to her. He yelled at me again in spanish and turned around and went back to the water, talking ot the woman from the shore. Julie had picked up the phone (when I set it down earlier) and finished the description and location of where we were. The cops finally showed up, had me point the guy out and they went down, talked to him and finally arrested him.
One of the cops talked to the woman, begging her to get help from a free shelter, gave her all of the info, but she was telling the cop nothing happened. The cop told us he sees stuff like that all the time. He said we did the right thing, even though she will probably go back to him.
So thats what happened. I got involved because Julie had things like that happen before to her, plus my son was there and her daughters and I didnt want them to see that.
Yea,no oneever kills people in front of witnesses.Sutekh said:
And how the fuck do you know before hand that the girl is just going to go back to him? We found out after the event, but you see a girl being fucking drowned and you say "fuck her, she"s probably just gonna go back to the guy afterwards." You have absolutely ZERO ability to predict whether that"s going to be the case or not. I generally refrain from personal insults on an internet forum, but you are a sad excuse for a human being.
How about a "good job brad, but be careful because you coulda gotten hurt." Na, criticize the guy instead. Half the people here are fucking insane. Ravvenn or Alcestis could take a shit on their chest and they"d be all "that was so interesting and awesome!" then brad turns into Batman and you come out "that was dumb."
Sutekh
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 7,489
- 106
Did you really just link me a wikipedia article about someone who was murdered in 1964?Dabamf said:
I can tell you really have no idea as to what"s going on here so I"m just going to disregard what you said because it"s mostly just inane dribble. I will say, risking your life for someone unwilling to change their own when it"s so amazingly easy, is retarded.
However a tip for the next time you post. Read what you plan on commenting on, make sure you fully understand it, take a moment to collect your thoughts properly, and then write the post out you want to. This may help you in the future.
sutekh hates dabamf. he tries way too hard to make dabamf look stupid.
edit: way to go Brad. The only thing I wouldn"t have done was get in his face when he tried to leave. once the damsel is no longer actively being abused in public and the police are coming: job done.
edit: way to go Brad. The only thing I wouldn"t have done was get in his face when he tried to leave. once the damsel is no longer actively being abused in public and the police are coming: job done.
Dabamf said:
Dabamf said:
This was my argument, that people do kill others with witnesses around. I said nothing about the bystander effect.Dabamf said:
What guild was I in w/ your girlfriend? On p1999 or Vazaelle?