GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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Royal_sl said:
There also isn't any real overriding reason for Ned to have gone to such lengths to hide the parentage if Jon is Robert and Lyanna's son. Knowing Robert would likely have had him killed and Ned's disdain for violence against children, even done in Robert's name and interest, is more than enough reason.
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Why would Robert have him killed? If anything, Robert would likely have acknowledged him, and kept him in King's Landing as a cherished memory of Lyanna. Maybe even made him his heir. Now maybe Ned would have been pleased for all the trouble Jon's acknowledgement would have caused for the Lannisters, but I could also see him deciding it was better for the realm as a whole if there wasn't a majorly divisive issue between the Baratheons and Lannisters, even if it meant letting the Lannisters basically get away with the sack of King's Landing and the murder of the Targaryen children.

Royal_sl said:
No, I'm not saying that. I don't think he would either. I'm saying he would have if Jon was Rhaegar's.
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Maybe, maybe not. I think he probably would have wanted to but I don't see Ned ever allowing that if he had Jon already in his keeping, which would have meant the North rising in rebellion yet again.
 
Tuco

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Agraza_sl said:
Pretty sure Ned's Dad and Bro got pwnt before Bobby B rolled up his squad.
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Aye. I'm pretty sure they explained this in the show, but Brandon Stark (Ned's brotha) and Rickard Stark (Ned's father) were killed by Aerys II Targaryen when they protested the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark.
 
Tuco

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Re: Posting in the non-spoiler thread, if you're going to do it you better be on point about A: Not posting stuff that wasn't explained in the show and B: Not speculating on things based on what you know from the books or spoilers. You'll notice whenever I speculate on stuff there's it's on topics that are totally divergent from the books.

At least we're passed the Red Wedding and most of the big reveals in the show. Once we finish this season there won't be much to spoil unless they start up the Greyjoys. And even then there's not much to spoil there since Euron and Victarion are both currently alive. Euron winning the kingsmoot is a spoiler, but I don't think anyone really cares. If the next book comes out before the next season, that'll be a different story.

Gavinmad_sl said:
Someone please infract Tuco for posting spoilers.
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The scene where Petyr explained that was in this season. Keep up.
 
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Tenks

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I guess thats why he's saying Ned had nothing to gain if Jon was the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna. So just keeping it hidden with his "Oh she was a bar maid. With huge tits. Yeah they were cool." descriptions kind of jives with that.
 
Gavinmad

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Tuco_sl said:
The scene where Petyr explained that was in this season. Keep up.
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Yeah I know, he talked about it with Sansa. Twas a joke you shitlord. Any time I post anything in the no-spoilers thread I triple check myself with the GoT wiki since it keeps the book stuff separate.
 
A

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Gavinmad_sl said:
The fact that he wouldn't discuss it with Catelyn is some of the most compelling evidence there is that it wasn't his son.

It would also make for a very weird story for him to be this super important character in the series, and have his mother's identity be a complete mystery, but then it just turns out oh yeah Ned totally knocked up some tavern wench.
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Plenty of random people we don't know their parents. He is THE bastard in the show, sure there are others but his entire identity is based around it. We don't need to know who his parents were.

The blacksmith we did. If we did they would have told us about Jon as well. They didn't, I bet it's a red herring that Martin put out there to mess with us.
 
Sutekh

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No way Robert was going to kill Jon, but what everyone seems to forget is that everyone in Westeros was running around murdering Targ babies. That's why they had to hide Viscerys and Danny.
 
Royal

Royal

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Gavinmad_sl said:
I think he probably would have wanted to but I don't see Ned ever allowing that if he had Jon already in his keeping, which would have meant the North rising in rebellion yet again.
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That would be why Ned hid Jon's true parentage. I don't think Robert would have allowed the Targaryen line to continue if there was anything at all he could do about it. Robert would have always been the man who killed Jon's father.

And we don't know what, if anything, Lyanna said to Ned at the Tower of Joy. If she made him swear to keep Jon's parentage secret, you think Ned wouldn't?
 
Mist

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There's no point speculating anymore. The writers are just going to do whatever they feels like.
 
Gavinmad

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Royal_sl said:
That would be why Ned hid Jon's true parentage. I don't think Robert would have allowed the Targaryen line to continue if there was anything at all he could do about it. Robert would have always been the man who killed Jon's father.

And we don't know what, if anything, Lyanna said to Ned at the Tower of Joy. If she made him swear to keep Jon's parentage secret, you think Ned wouldn't?
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She wouldn't need to make him swear, he would keep Jon's parentage secret just out of common sense and self preservation. But yes, I think it's most likely that Ned had a private talk with Lyanna and she said Rhaegar didn't rape or kidnap her, and if Robert found that out he'd probably go off the deep end. Or maybe in more GRRM style, she confirms that it was rape and kidnapping, but wants Ned to protect the baby anyway.
 
Tuco

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Royal_sl said:
That would be why Ned hid Jon's true parentage. I don't think Robert would have allowed the Targaryen line to continue if there was anything at all he could do about it. Robert would have always been the man who killed Jon's father.

And we don't know what, if anything, Lyanna said to Ned at the Tower of Joy. If she made him swear to keep Jon's parentage secret, you think Ned wouldn't?
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Yep. The show doesn't make it obvious that the Targaryens ruled Westeros for hundreds of years. Robert's Rebellion was a massive paradigm shift, and a Targaryen could very credibly claim ownership of the Iron Throne. Shit, they founded King's Landing. Eddard knew this and knew the only way he could enable his sister's son to survive would be to hide his identity from everyone, including his wife and Jon himself.


also lol @ the non spoiler thread:
TaggorBren_sl said:
The kid has to be Ned's or he would have discussed it with Catelyn. Who the mother is we probably won't find out, would it even matter in the story? So he's a bastard, so what.
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TaggorBren_sl said:
Plenty of random people we don't know their parents. He is THE bastard in the show, sure there are others but his entire identity is based around it. We don't need to know who his parents were.

The blacksmith we did. If we did they would have told us about Jon as well. They didn't, I bet it's a red herring that Martin put out there to mess with us.
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I think Taggor is reverse nostradouching, but I'll abide by now. Usually the way this works is one of you aspergers see something wrong and want to desperately argue it but know you can't so you try to be as sneaky as possible. Like a dog trying to slither over to a piece of meat.
 
Tuco

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Gavinmad_sl said:
Yeah I know, he talked about it with Sansa. Twas a joke you shitlord. Any time I post anything in the no-spoilers thread I triple check myself with the GoT wiki since it keeps the book stuff separate.
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fine fine. Do you know if they mentioned anything about the tower of joy in the show?

Showdown at the Red Mountains - Game of Thrones Wiki

doesn't really indicate it. It's such a cool piece of GoT history it'd be a shame if it isn't done in the show. It wouldn't even be a big budget thing. Just everyone being badasses. I'm still holding out hope that Bran sees it somehow.
 
Drinsic

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if it was someone's alt trying to draw out the aspies to get infracted, that would actually make me laugh.
 
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Tenks

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If they did drop that Jon was the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna his hair still makes no sense. Especially since in these books hair and hair color is pretty important to the houses.
 
Drinsic

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All it means is that the Starks likely have dominant genes over the Targs. Most of the silver-haired (which looks straight up blonde in this show sometimes) Targs were the result of incest.
 
Sutekh

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Tenks_sl said:
If they did drop that Jon was the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna his hair still makes no sense. Especially since in these books hair and hair color is pretty important to the houses.
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Why wouldn't it make sense? Lyanna is a Stark still. Not really uncommon for a child to take the traits of their mother and I don't think it's as important as you're making it out to be, no one even questioned Robert's kids until the rumors started to spread.
 
Tuco

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Drinsic_sl said:
All it means is that the Starks likely have dominant genes over the Targs. Most of the silver-haired (which looks straight up blonde in this show sometimes) Targs were the result of incest.
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I feel like the part exposing how all of Bobby B's bastards have dark hair but Cersei's kids are blonde make the point that dark hair is dominant in GoT like it is in RL. I don't think Lyanna's hair is described though.
 
Royal

Royal

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Tenks_sl said:
It also seems odd if Jon had Targaryn blood that his hair would be jet black -- which I believe is similar to the book when they describe his appearance.
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Platinum blonde hair was so prominent amongst the Targaryen's because of inbreeding. Rhaegar's first child with Elia however, his daughter Rhaenys, was Dornish in appearance. So Jon's hair color doesn't disqualify him at all.
 
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