See, I think things can get a lot grimmer in Westeros. What happens if the Wall is brought down and an army of White Walkers and undead comes pouring into the Seven Kingdoms. I definitely think that the War of the Five Kings will be a footnote to the War for the Dawn when all is said and done. Your point is still well-taken though. Even if things were resolved right now, there would still be a ton of suffering as soon as winter hits. No one has any supplies to survive a long winter.
GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings
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Gavinmad
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Eh, the 'end of an age' trope is definitely an element of a bittersweet ending, but book ended on a pretty up note. A single element of unhappiness (Frodo having to depart for Valinor) doesn't turn it into a bittersweet ending.
Harry Potter would be a great example of a bittersweet ending if it wasn't for that awful 'and they lived happily ever after' fanfic epilogue. Yeah Voldemort is dead and our three heroes survived, but so very many people died to make that happen. The fact that they ultimately won keeps it from being a downer ending, but the shadows of Fred, Lupin, and Tonks really made it very melancholy. Hell, you want a much better example of a bittersweet ending than LotR? Read The Chronicles of Prydain. They're young adult but still pretty engaging. In the last book, the hero chooses to turn down his chance to travel to the Summer Country with his friends and fiancee and instead stays behind to try and rebuild Prydain. Still enough positive going on to keep it from being a downer, but much more bittersweet than LotR.
Harry Potter would be a great example of a bittersweet ending if it wasn't for that awful 'and they lived happily ever after' fanfic epilogue. Yeah Voldemort is dead and our three heroes survived, but so very many people died to make that happen. The fact that they ultimately won keeps it from being a downer ending, but the shadows of Fred, Lupin, and Tonks really made it very melancholy. Hell, you want a much better example of a bittersweet ending than LotR? Read The Chronicles of Prydain. They're young adult but still pretty engaging. In the last book, the hero chooses to turn down his chance to travel to the Summer Country with his friends and fiancee and instead stays behind to try and rebuild Prydain. Still enough positive going on to keep it from being a downer, but much more bittersweet than LotR.
Jait
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Gavinmad is my own personal Jimmy Whisperer.
Dude...
LotR has THE bittersweet ending. For fucks sake... Frodo fails. He refuses to throw it in. He's basically killed himself on this quest and will slowly rot away from Wraith Herpes but at least he can go home, drink a beer, smoke his fucking bong....THE FUCK! Sharkey just burned down your whole fucking city and probably fucked Goldie. Pretty sure Sam's first kid was Human sized. Then the end is Frodo dying each year until he gets on the damn boat.
Dude...
LotR has THE bittersweet ending. For fucks sake... Frodo fails. He refuses to throw it in. He's basically killed himself on this quest and will slowly rot away from Wraith Herpes but at least he can go home, drink a beer, smoke his fucking bong....THE FUCK! Sharkey just burned down your whole fucking city and probably fucked Goldie. Pretty sure Sam's first kid was Human sized. Then the end is Frodo dying each year until he gets on the damn boat.
Chukzombi
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when i read LOTR for the first time as a kid i had assumed Valinor wasnt really a place or rather a place where the party never ends, i assumed its like christian heaven where you just die and hopefully live forever in people's memories. i mean if valinor was so awesome, why would you go there when your life is essentially over? why not head over there on weekends for BBQ and keggers?
Pretty sure Valinor was like an exclusive club where you need to be on the list to get in.
Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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The climax is not the ending, so Frodo's succumbing to the ring isn't terribly relevant to the bittersweet ending argument. As I already stated, the scouring of the shire sets it up to be bittersweet, but then that all gets wiped away with the box of magic dust Galadriel gave Sam, and the hobbits continue to live their lives as if there had never been a Sharkey. The ending for everyone except Frodo is basically 'and they lived happily ever after'.
Chukzombi
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the story is from the POV of Frodo, who is dying from Sauron cancer and because its magical he gets to die a long long long time. thats the bittersweet. the shire is doing what it always does, nobody cares, we care about poor Frodo who tried to do the right thing, failed at the end and even had he just popped The Ring into MD he would still be fucked no matter what. even Sam, who barely touched The Ring, he has Sauron cancer as well and will have to head on over to Valinor when he cant stand the misery any longer. that part always had me thinking, with Gandalf , Galadriel, Elrond and the elves gone, who is gonna pick Sam up at the dock?
Chukzombi
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that was Sauron AIDS. he already had Sauron cancer. look what it did to Bilbo in that scene when he demanded the ring from frodo.
Jait
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Yeah, and I prefer Wraith Herpes since Frodo was indeed penetrated.
And Chuk, I'm pretty sure Galadriel left wood behind for Legolas to make a ship for himself. Been a long time but I'm sure we have much better nerds than I to answer that.
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This is part of it but it's more the ring. Anyone that carried it was impacted by it. As said above, it's why Sam is on "the list" to the grey elf party bus as well.
Gavinmad
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The story is from the POV of several characters, not just Frodo, so what does that matter? And as I've already said, a single bittersweet element to an ending does not make it a bittersweet ending. Pretty sure Sam didn't have ring cancer, he was just awarded the choice to sail to Valinor for his service. Gimli eventually left for Valinor as well, and he never carried the ring. Merry and Pippin likely would have been allowed to sail to Valinor, but they chose to travel to Gondor before they died and were eventually entombed at the side of Aragorn.
As for who picked up Sam, presumably Cirdan waited at the Grey Havens until everyone left in Middle Earth who had the option to sail west died or made their choice.
As for who picked up Sam, presumably Cirdan waited at the Grey Havens until everyone left in Middle Earth who had the option to sail west died or made their choice.
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I thought there was specific mention of the ring when it came to Sam and his invite. Yes, Gimli was allowed as well, so the ring wasn't an absolute prerequisite for the invite to non elves, but I thought I remembered something explicit when it came to Sam. It's been forever since I've read the books.
One of my biggest childhood memories is finishing the second book and thinking Frodo is dead and being in tears. Impactful for sure.
One of my biggest childhood memories is finishing the second book and thinking Frodo is dead and being in tears. Impactful for sure.
Jait
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There's nothing to fucking talk about. Wait until they get started on their 45 page "What if RR Martin had written Harry Potter?" derail.
Oh, fuck. Oops.
Royal
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For mortals, being in Valinor basically filled a person with so much joy and happiness that it was more than their heart could stand and it would kill them.