Gun control

Borzak_sl said:

"Yeah but the democrats won't come for my guns because they know it will be a dead issue".

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Yep, Im not from Colorado but I definitely fell into this trap.

khalid_sl said:

Yep, Im not from Colorado but I definitely fell into this trap.

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I saw it a LOT when I was first out of school with a degree in wildlife management and I traveled all over the country talking to hunters and shooters in areas that were heavily democrat and/or union and that was always the argument given after the 1993/1994 bills and house loss.

Even if these stupid laws pass, I still think the alternative is worse. The country is more than just gun laws.

I meant the alternative to the people I voted for. khalid is calling it a trap, like there was an alternative.

I did say that the NY law wouldn't pass and it looks like it did, and I didn't think the CO law would pass and am shocked that it did. But there will be no national gun control law, at all, Not even the background check shit.

chaos_sl said:

I meant the alternative to the people I voted for. khalid is calling it a trap, like there was an alternative.

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I know a few people that live in the front range in CO that voted Dem the last few cycles that will be voting Repub going forward because of these bills. My brother in law and a few of his friends figured gun control was a dead issue - it means enough to them to change who they vote for.

I did say Obama had no history of pursuing gun legislation, and that I didn't think he would change that. You might argue he has pursued it with his comments and executive actions, and I'd have to admit that has merit. But he hasn't made it an important part of the state of the union, so I think his agenda is still very much the economy. The bullshit since he was elected has been that the 2nd amendment was dead and you better get guns now. This was a lie perpetrated by the gun industry and its lobbying arm to boost sales. And until some whacko did something in the northeast, nothing was said or done by the White House. Even now it's just a publicity issue for the white house (imo).

I don't want the teatards to convince the "independents" to vote on gun issues so that the republicans can fuck over the national economy again ala Bush et al. Thus, I want the democrats to leave it be so we can frame the discussion of the next cycle on something with merit. Rather than making guns illegal, make pot legal. Treat the causes of gang violence, the prohibition of substances and lack of employment/education opportunities. Violence will drop.

Zodiac_sl said:

I know a few people that live in the front range in CO that voted Dem the last few cycles that will be voting Repub going forward because of these bills. My brother in law and a few of his friends figured gun control was a dead issue - it means enough to them to change who they vote for.

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If the alternative wasn't people who think Earth is 6,000 years old or women and black people should lose the right to vote or we should end the FDA and food stamp programs, then sure I would give that some thought. We already talked about that in this thread I think. I think becoming a single issue voter is incredibly short-sighted and irresponsible.

Voting one-issue on guns isn't shortsighted. If anything it is playing the long game. It seems every decade or so the NRA has to show legislators that gun control isn't a winning issue. The only way to really do this is to have gun owners go one-issue for one election cycle.

khalid_sl said:

Voting one-issue on guns isn't shortsighted. If anything it is playing the long game. It seems every decade or so the NRA has to show legislators that gun control isn't a winning issue. The only way to really do this is to have gun owners go one-issue for one election cycle.

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And every time the Republicans are put into power, they do more irreparable damage to the country. It's a lose/lose though, so I don't really blame gun owners for voting in their own short term interest. I'm not surprised the NY law passed, but the CO law breezing through like that is kind of a shocker.

Gavinrad_sl said:

It's a lose/lose though, so I don't really blame gun owners for voting in their own short term interest.

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Yep, it isn't like I am happy about feeling like I have to be a one-issue voter now. I mean, my choice in last election was Akins of "legitimate rape" fame vs Mccaskill who is anti-gun.

To me, losing the FDA or voting for Akins or something like that is way worse than some stupid gun restrictions going into place. It isn't like I really blame gun owners, I blame the Democratic party for pushing this agenda knowing it won't solve any violence problems and knowing that it will have serious ramifications for their party. Who, for better or worse right now, are the lesser of two evils.

To me, you vote for a Republican and the Rs gain control of the government so now your guns are safe. Great. But the entire social infrastructure of the country is at risk, and that's just to start.

Agraza_sl said:

I don't want the teatards to convince the "independents" to vote on gun issues so that the republicans can fuck over the national economy again ala Bush et al. Thus, I want the democrats to leave it be so we can frame the discussion of the next cycle on something with merit. Rather than making guns illegal, make pot legal. Treat the causes of gang violence, the prohibition of substances and lack of employment/education opportunities. Violence will drop.

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The thing is, no one really cares about gang violence because it is largely limited to bangers killing bangers. No big loss to society. The media ignores it, unless a stray bullet kills a bystander who happens to have attended a recent Obama function. The fact that spree killings like Aurora or Sandy Hook target largely affluent whites is what makes them a Big Deal in the media, and apparently, for legislators across the country.

But the spree killings account for such a tiny percentage of the actual gun violence that even the most draconian gun control measures will not have a perceivable impact on overall gun crime. And I'd bet that the spree killers come up with new, creative ways to wrought their carnage.

I don't think that any meaningful gun control legislation will pass at the federal level. And I think the democrats are running a huge risk by even making the issues as high profile as they have. I expect the republicans will have an exceptional midterm election. Gun voters are going to spank the democrats until they accept that gun control is not a winning platform except in the most liberal of liberal states.

If you guys have such short memories. If the visual of a crazed teen-ager with a military grade rifle methodically shooting to death twenty children of ages six and seven doesnt make you cringe; doesnt give you nightmares; doesnt make you say, "something must be done"!! Even if that something turns out to be merely cosmetic. Then you guys are some stone cold bitches.