Hearthstone
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Aaubert
Silver Knight of the Realm
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Quoted from the Iksar comments on Druid from Sunday:
"Having such a powerful card draw effect is somethign we wouldn't consider part of their identity as a class."
So, what is he saying, that either the "draw 5 cards" part of the card was a typo and they didn't mean to, or they purposely put in cards that are counter to the identity of the class...?
Maybe I'm being nitpicky... but seriously, this sort of public statement about cards does so much damage to my personal opinion of them as a team.
Iksar said:
"Having such a powerful card draw effect is somethign we wouldn't consider part of their identity as a class."
So, what is he saying, that either the "draw 5 cards" part of the card was a typo and they didn't mean to, or they purposely put in cards that are counter to the identity of the class...?
Maybe I'm being nitpicky... but seriously, this sort of public statement about cards does so much damage to my personal opinion of them as a team.
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Brand
Molten Core Raider
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The
I don't think there is a credible 'pro player' of any stripe on staff at Blizzard. They consistently show a lack of understanding of their own game. Additionally, they must have the worst fucking playtesters...Ever.
I don't think there is a credible 'pro player' of any stripe on staff at Blizzard. They consistently show a lack of understanding of their own game. Additionally, they must have the worst fucking playtesters...Ever.
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Mures
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Literally have not faced an opponent that was not a druid today.
I don't know why they aren't quicker to adjust cards. It seems like every time they say we're looking into "blank" they end up nerfing "blank" 3-6 months later.
"We are looking at a number of Druid cards, but for a deck or archetype to reach this level of popularity this early on in an expansion is not abnormal. The population usually finds something powerful, latches onto it, then other decks that are powerful vs that archetype come onto the scene until one of them emerges as the new popular deck before the cycle continues. It’s certainly possible that Druid is in fact so powerful that it prevents the normal metagame cycle from happening, but it’s too early to tell."
Why is it too early to tell? No one deck/class was this prevalent at launch or just recently when un'goro was released. Sure, its not abnormal for the shitty expansions.
I don't know why they aren't quicker to adjust cards. It seems like every time they say we're looking into "blank" they end up nerfing "blank" 3-6 months later.
"We are looking at a number of Druid cards, but for a deck or archetype to reach this level of popularity this early on in an expansion is not abnormal. The population usually finds something powerful, latches onto it, then other decks that are powerful vs that archetype come onto the scene until one of them emerges as the new popular deck before the cycle continues. It’s certainly possible that Druid is in fact so powerful that it prevents the normal metagame cycle from happening, but it’s too early to tell."
Why is it too early to tell? No one deck/class was this prevalent at launch or just recently when un'goro was released. Sure, its not abnormal for the shitty expansions.
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Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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It's not that hard to tell if a card is too strong. Just think to yourself, would I still use Ultimate Infestation if it only drew 4 cards? If it only drew 3? How much do you have to remove before it starts to be a choice to include instead of auto-include? You have to hit it pretty hard right now to get down there.
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I kind of agree with the devs, and it's an unpopular opinion. It's kind of like Warrior a while back when they had multiple different lists in Pirate, Dragon, and Control all at once. It gets a high representation but is it any one card? If you nerf Infestation do you really think Druid goes away? The short answer is not even remotely.
Yes, there are lot of Druids, but it's multiple decks. It's also only 2 weeks into the expansion, and there is probably a counter. I think part of it is you need to see some tournaments play out some and see if anyone figures out a good Druid counter. I think Jades way more counterable than the agro Druid though, but that's an agro deck that sometimes falls on it's face with draws.
There are decks that seem good against Druid, like most Paladin decks, Big Priest, Burn Mage. People just want to play Druid instead of trying to beat it. There is a real risk in game design that if they just nerf shit immediately people always just bitch about it instead of trying to figure out how to deal with it. For the health of the game they really have to let things play out
Yes, there are lot of Druids, but it's multiple decks. It's also only 2 weeks into the expansion, and there is probably a counter. I think part of it is you need to see some tournaments play out some and see if anyone figures out a good Druid counter. I think Jades way more counterable than the agro Druid though, but that's an agro deck that sometimes falls on it's face with draws.
There are decks that seem good against Druid, like most Paladin decks, Big Priest, Burn Mage. People just want to play Druid instead of trying to beat it. There is a real risk in game design that if they just nerf shit immediately people always just bitch about it instead of trying to figure out how to deal with it. For the health of the game they really have to let things play out
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Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I'm not blaming the devs too much either.... except I did rant on reddit about jade idol before msog was released, still the dumbest card in the game.. but they've been doing better and I think there's probably only 1 or 2 adjustments needed, UI is just absurd tbh, it's stronger than Kazakus and rafaam spells, and compare it to tree of life, pyroblast and mind control even.. we have precedent for 10 mana spells and this thing is crazy.
However... it's not in aggro druid. Druid is broken at its core and we might not see drastic changes til next rotation.
Considering lore had its card draw nerfed, you'd think they would have known not to give druid efficient card draw. So there is a bit of blame to pass imo.
However, I also am glad they do take some risks. Tons of cards we evaluate as broken end up being shit. You just don't know. And they could never hire enough play testers to compete with the millions of players on live...
Something like spreading plague would be a tough catch... and maybe it's not even op in a different meta..UI just seems obvious... and personally I think bonemare shouldnt be better than a legendary. It should have been a deathrattle trigger imo, it's a damn neutral common ffs.
In terms of meta... Druid can maybe be countered, but their winrate is crazy high and they will dictate the meta. As I said before, we're talking an entire class that's op, not just 1 deck. To nerf the class would mean targeting their basic cards.
If we just want to nerf jade then a nerf to UI would do it, but you'd need to hit the card draw. But then they just load up auctioneers again. It'll slow them down though and auctioneer is a build around card. They'd have to lose a lot of the utility they've gained with UI.
Even still, plague and the DK would still make jades stronger than before
However... it's not in aggro druid. Druid is broken at its core and we might not see drastic changes til next rotation.
Considering lore had its card draw nerfed, you'd think they would have known not to give druid efficient card draw. So there is a bit of blame to pass imo.
However, I also am glad they do take some risks. Tons of cards we evaluate as broken end up being shit. You just don't know. And they could never hire enough play testers to compete with the millions of players on live...
Something like spreading plague would be a tough catch... and maybe it's not even op in a different meta..UI just seems obvious... and personally I think bonemare shouldnt be better than a legendary. It should have been a deathrattle trigger imo, it's a damn neutral common ffs.
In terms of meta... Druid can maybe be countered, but their winrate is crazy high and they will dictate the meta. As I said before, we're talking an entire class that's op, not just 1 deck. To nerf the class would mean targeting their basic cards.
If we just want to nerf jade then a nerf to UI would do it, but you'd need to hit the card draw. But then they just load up auctioneers again. It'll slow them down though and auctioneer is a build around card. They'd have to lose a lot of the utility they've gained with UI.
Even still, plague and the DK would still make jades stronger than before
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It's kind of like Iksar was saying, you can find stats to support what you want. The following link paints a different picture
Deck Win Rates - Hearthstone Meta Stats
Deck Win Rates - Hearthstone Meta Stats
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Necrath Evilcraft
Golden Knight of the Realm
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norp
Bronze Squire
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The ramp is the problem I have with druid. I feel like more then any other class they have draws you just can't beat. On top of that, they now have the power to completely abuse the ramp by mitigating the card disadvantage.
Also who had much faith in the Hearthstone team for high end balancing? The game has always been broken if you abuse the broken designs. From Undertaker, to Ultimate Infestation.
Also who had much faith in the Hearthstone team for high end balancing? The game has always been broken if you abuse the broken designs. From Undertaker, to Ultimate Infestation.
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Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I can't view that link at work, but Win Rates shouldn't be the metric. Play % is a better statistic imo. We're at 30-45% druid participation (depending on rank). So a lot of games are druid vs druid which obviously means 50% win rate, and people are trying to tailor their decks against druid.
Data Reaper LIVE (Beta) | Vicious Syndicate
Druid is literally 3x more prevalent than the next class (Paladin/Priest).
On the whole ladder we have these specific decks:
Jade Druid: 16.5%
Razakus Priest: 9.4%
Murloc Paladin: 9.2%
Aggro Druid: 7.8%
Pirate Warrior: 7%
All other decks are sub-5%
Aggro+Jade combined is ~25% of the ladder
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Mahes
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Arfus's ability should have been in line with the Lich King in that it was at the end of turn rather than Battlecry. He ends up being a very weak Legendary due to the random factor. They could have even have allowed for a discover component since it only activates once. The power level to rarity feels way off on this expansion.
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Vaclav
Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Or just make him Rare instead. But yea, he's weak unless you can abuse the hell out of repeating his trigger like in Hunter. But no chance of Hunter being a thing anytime soon.
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Origin
Molten Core Raider
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Here are my stats post rank 5. I play other decks, lose stars and play Jade Druid again... but it's just not fun. People justifying Ultimate Infestation as not being utterly overpowered are retarded. UI with jade idol against decks that do not run Geist, for whatever reason, is a crazy combo. One or the other needs to get nerfed. Probably both. The Jade archetype has been AIDS for Hearthstone since it's introduction. We don't need decks like it.
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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I read a really apt comment on Jade Druid the other day. So while Jade has always been a bit of a fringe deck and not necessarily a dominating deck by itself. Jade had a huge weakness to aggro decks. With the addition of UI and Plague they can now survive against aggro very well.
Meanwhile you need to run Geist, draw Geist and play it while sacrificing your own 1 mana spells for whatever class you're playing just so you don't automatically lose to it.
From the moment the card was printed most people knew Jade Idol effectively neutered control decks and outright murdered fatigue decks. It's quite accurate to say that the deck, despite its average win rate, warps the entire meta just to avoid/mitigate it. Pushing the meta away from control and to heavy aggro even moreso than usual.
Which is simply made worse by cards like Plague so their primary weakness isn't a major weakness anymore.
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