Hearthstone
- Thread starter Azrayne
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Brand
Molten Core Raider
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Things in Arena now:
First Game was Warlock who had two Lord Godfreys just in his fucking deck. Two defiles and a bunch of other shit. Then a paladin with three Steeds AND Call to Arns.... How did this happen?
.....and some dude just played a Black Knight from his deck..... W T F
I also went 2-3 so these are the marginally shittier decks?
First Game was Warlock who had two Lord Godfreys just in his fucking deck. Two defiles and a bunch of other shit. Then a paladin with three Steeds AND Call to Arns.... How did this happen?
.....and some dude just played a Black Knight from his deck..... W T F
I also went 2-3 so these are the marginally shittier decks?
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Origin
Molten Core Raider
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Kripp was discussing that in that video someone posted a few pages back. Basically arena is unplayable atm. Priests with 3-4 Duskbreakers, Paladins are apparently the best class atm, etc.
Will pass on that.
EU ladder is pretty terrible atm. You just need to bite the bullet, pick a class and play rock, paper, scissors. You're guaranteed to get 33% matches that you will lose, no matter what.
Will pass on that.
EU ladder is pretty terrible atm. You just need to bite the bullet, pick a class and play rock, paper, scissors. You're guaranteed to get 33% matches that you will lose, no matter what.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Just played two spiteful druid in a row. Game one, spiteful turns 5 and 6. 32/32 in stats by turn 6. Sounds fair...
Game 2 was much better. Turn 6 and 7 spiteful and the first one only had 12/12 in stats. That actually felt possibly winnable but they had both silence knights so my blockers just sat there watching my ass get raped. Obviously, Blizzard tested extensively on this game the past few years.....
Game 2 was much better. Turn 6 and 7 spiteful and the first one only had 12/12 in stats. That actually felt possibly winnable but they had both silence knights so my blockers just sat there watching my ass get raped. Obviously, Blizzard tested extensively on this game the past few years.....
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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This is why Even paladin is strong. It shits on spiteful decks something fierce.
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Ravishing
Uninspiring Title
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I'm surprised Sunkeeper is in there. If anything, maybe his mana cost could be adjusted.
Call to Arms is obvious
Baku Paladin hero power was in the Kripp video, maybe gets hit
Spiteful NEEDS to get hit if this meta is ever going to get better
Lackey is strong but doesn't need nerf if you hit Dark Pact instead
Gul'Dan is very strong, but I don't want it neutered, maybe a slight nerf to the hero power could be warranted, like make it 2dmg/heal instead of 3.
Dark Pact was my call out a few days ago. It enables Lackey AND Cube on same-turn usually. I think to really neuter cubelock you need to hit this card. It's also 1 card as opposed to hitting 2+ (lackey/weapon/cube/doomguard).
Looks like Quest Rogue will be hit for sure if it's mentioned here. If you nerf the paladin decks then Quest Rogue only becomes more menacing. I like the deck, but the win rates vs Control lists are too oppressive. Some control lists could probably find ways to win, but it won't be fun.
Doomguard has been strong since classic and has been a staple, but I can't see it being nerfed tbh. Without Cubes/Lackey/DK the card is well balanced. And those other cards rotate.
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Put an upper mana limitation on Spiteful: Reveal a spell that costs less than (6? 5? Something like that). That would also make spiteful decks be able to run more spells that cost more than the limit, since those spells won't be affected.
Dark pact should cost 3.
Call to arms should cost 5. Even pally can't run it, and for odd pally it only summons 1 cost minions. Seems good.
Rogue quest should be 7 copies. Fuck that shit right in the ass.
Baku paladin should make 2/2's. It's the flood aspect that's a bitch. Helps classes that don't have tons of aoe.
I don't think Gul'dan or Doomguard are bad when you can't enable lackey/cube shenanigans on turn 6. Nerfing dark pact so that those kinds of things happen on like turn 8 makes it way more palatable IMO. Downside is now you can't kill Dark Pacts with Skulking Geist. The trouble with that is, often Cubelock can do lackey/pact/skull crap before you even have enough mana to play Geist, and playing Geist on curve is TERRIBLE tempo. Maybe make Geist cost 5 and leave Dark Pact alone? Eh, probably better to nerf Dark Pact.
Dark pact should cost 3.
Call to arms should cost 5. Even pally can't run it, and for odd pally it only summons 1 cost minions. Seems good.
Rogue quest should be 7 copies. Fuck that shit right in the ass.
Baku paladin should make 2/2's. It's the flood aspect that's a bitch. Helps classes that don't have tons of aoe.
I don't think Gul'dan or Doomguard are bad when you can't enable lackey/cube shenanigans on turn 6. Nerfing dark pact so that those kinds of things happen on like turn 8 makes it way more palatable IMO. Downside is now you can't kill Dark Pacts with Skulking Geist. The trouble with that is, often Cubelock can do lackey/pact/skull crap before you even have enough mana to play Geist, and playing Geist on curve is TERRIBLE tempo. Maybe make Geist cost 5 and leave Dark Pact alone? Eh, probably better to nerf Dark Pact.
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I can never decide if this kind of fuckuppery is unique to hearthstone, or this is endemic to TCG(someone has to lose) and hearthstone is under a microscope. For example, I recently gave MTGA a try and I didn't have any of these card-specific balance thoughts. And then I remembered, that's because there are core issues with the game that would prevent players from even getting to that point.
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brekk
Dancing Dino Superstar
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Just run, The Darkness, and watch the spiteful druids cry.
Also, I think the best Cubelock nerf would be make dark pact cost 3. Slows the single turn safe play Dark Pact + Lackey/Cube until turn 8. Leads to slower play, or taking risks versus silence. It also makes early hero power spam riskier as you can't just tack on Dark Pact to a turn to keep life up.
Also, I think the best Cubelock nerf would be make dark pact cost 3. Slows the single turn safe play Dark Pact + Lackey/Cube until turn 8. Leads to slower play, or taking risks versus silence. It also makes early hero power spam riskier as you can't just tack on Dark Pact to a turn to keep life up.
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TJT
Mr. Poopybutthole
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My opinion is about the same:
- Call to Arms: Guaranteed this gets nerfed. Either higher mana cost or draws less minions or both.
- Dark Pact: This is the real enabler to the whole Cubelock/Lock in general. With this and Lackey they can guarantee that the Warlock will be ready to play Gul'Dan the moment he draws him. Needs to cost 3 or be usable only on Demons.
- Spiteful Summoner: I honestly don't hate this card. It should at least consume the card for the summon.
- Quest Rogue: Just nuke it into the ground. Kill it.
- Gul'Dan is fine to me. It's the other shit that makes him terrible.
- Lackey doesn't need a nerf. Only its enablers.
- Kobold Librarian is also fine.
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brekk
Dancing Dino Superstar
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Another Cubelock/Warlock general fix. Make the spellstone go 3-4-5. It's currently super easy to upgrade, and the "detriment" isn't bad considering the upgraded spellstone un-does the damage you have to take.
The power of Cubelock isn't the core Demon cheating. It's the supportive healing that's cheap, and synergizes too well with the deck. The "downsides" of Dark Pact and Spellstone are basically non-existant. Hell in the case of Dark Pact it's a perk. Kobold Librarian and Hellfire would be run even if the spellstone didn't exist, and much like Dark Pact, Hellfire's "downside" once again can be utilized to kill that Lackey or Cube.
Cube Lock is an interesting case for an overpowered deck. It doesn't have a singular overpowered card or combo. It just has so many cards that work so well together. Look how stable the deck list has been since it's inception. The only notable variances are Giants/Umbra/Taldaram swapping for Silence/Ooze. It has 26 cards that are basically locked in with no adjustment.
The power of Cubelock isn't the core Demon cheating. It's the supportive healing that's cheap, and synergizes too well with the deck. The "downsides" of Dark Pact and Spellstone are basically non-existant. Hell in the case of Dark Pact it's a perk. Kobold Librarian and Hellfire would be run even if the spellstone didn't exist, and much like Dark Pact, Hellfire's "downside" once again can be utilized to kill that Lackey or Cube.
Cube Lock is an interesting case for an overpowered deck. It doesn't have a singular overpowered card or combo. It just has so many cards that work so well together. Look how stable the deck list has been since it's inception. The only notable variances are Giants/Umbra/Taldaram swapping for Silence/Ooze. It has 26 cards that are basically locked in with no adjustment.
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Origin
Molten Core Raider
- 874
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Many fine ideas by the bros here. I agree with a lot of them.
- Sunkeeper: Don't touch it.
- Call to Arms: 5 mana. As LR said earlier, even can't run it and odd will only draw one cost minions.
- Baku paladin hero power: Make it summon a 2/2, although i don't think the 1/1s are that problematic as is. Any half decent taunt minions stop them in their tracks. Greedy decks that don't run any early defense should always get punished by hyper-aggressive decks.
- Spiteful Summoner: Fully agree with TJT. Make it work like Grand Archivist in that it consumes the card, but summons a minion of that cost. Long term, they'll surely introduce other/more 10 cost minions that have strong battlecries and poor stat lines - like the Old Gods had - so it won't always be as OP as it is now.
- Lackey: I think that this card "limits design space", because in the future they (Blade Flurry logic) won't be able to create powerful demons, so it needs to be nerfed somehow - keeping in mind their Blade Flurry logicTM. At the very least, i'd make it summon a demon from hand, not from your deck. That'll make the combo a notch harder to pull off, without completely gutting it.
- Gul'Dan: Nerf long overdue. Make the hero power effect 2/2 damage/heal.
- Dark Pact: In a nut shell, this card is ONLY powerful because of Lackey and Cube. I think that nerfing Cube and/or Lackey would make this card normal, so i'd rather go that route. As i mentioned above, Lackey limits design space more than any effect that Dark Pact might have.
- Librarian: Don't touch it.
- Quest Rogue: Quest rogue is one of those boring to play against, uninteractive decks. At this point i'd change the quest almost completely. Making it take more minions or more mana or the minions being 4/4 would just be pointless at this point. Change the shit completely. Dunno... maybe give it some synergy with Kingsbane?
- Doomguard: Don't touch it.
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Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Kripp just put out a video going over a post about how absurdly bad the arena drafting design is, worse than thought:
Worgen Abomination weighted the same as Ultimate Infestation.
All card games have their own issues, but Hearthstone really stands out as having some of the most obviously worst despite being by far the biggest digital CG under the helm of one of the oldest gaming companies out there. It just blows my mind.
Worgen Abomination weighted the same as Ultimate Infestation.
All card games have their own issues, but Hearthstone really stands out as having some of the most obviously worst despite being by far the biggest digital CG under the helm of one of the oldest gaming companies out there. It just blows my mind.
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chthonic-anemos
bitchute.com/video/EvyOjOORbg5l/
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LOL @ them eyeing Doomguard after printing half a dozen ways to repeatedly ignore card costs.
They ought to develop rules for card development. Sonya, Zola, Dark pact, Call to arms, and Spiteful should cost more mana. Possessed Lackey 5m 2/2 and Arfus 2/2 for 4m; neither is guaranteed to produce effect but 2/2 Sonya and Zola are only 3m for easier results?
At minimum, Gul'dans vampire bite should be a melee attack. Right now it's perma malf+fandral productivity but doesn't suffer taunts or face trading with targets. Even if it didn't xchange hero power it would still cost 10 mana to anyfin/nzoth your board back. 2 win conditions for the price of 1. People have won with just the 10m hero power turn and nothing rez'd.
They ought to develop rules for card development. Sonya, Zola, Dark pact, Call to arms, and Spiteful should cost more mana. Possessed Lackey 5m 2/2 and Arfus 2/2 for 4m; neither is guaranteed to produce effect but 2/2 Sonya and Zola are only 3m for easier results?
At minimum, Gul'dans vampire bite should be a melee attack. Right now it's perma malf+fandral productivity but doesn't suffer taunts or face trading with targets. Even if it didn't xchange hero power it would still cost 10 mana to anyfin/nzoth your board back. 2 win conditions for the price of 1. People have won with just the 10m hero power turn and nothing rez'd.
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