Heroes of the Storm

an accordion_sl

shitlord
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If they want to compete with LOL/Dota they have to use the triple lane, early/mid/late game flow. It's how these games are played now. If they fuck with that it's like comparing the NFL with canadian football. The rules, fields and everything else are odd and different.

DOTA and LOL are like the National and American leagues in baseball. Same fields, but on one side the pitcher bats so it's a bit more unpredictable.

edit:
That's not to say that this game will be unpopular. People will still play the fuck out of it, but I don't think it'll get the acclaim or popularity that League has.
Didnt you get into lol like a month ago? I've played dota since 2005 or 6 and the last thing they should do is mimic the competition. League has already established itself as the semicasual and dota the unforgiving harder game of the two. Blizzard needs to do something similar to what pyros said and create a new way to play the genre.

Other companies have tried to simplify or expand the gameplay but it falls flat because no one makes an engine as responsive as blizzard... Just look at D3 for proof.
 

Nirgon

YOU HAVE NO POWER HERE
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Maybe Blizzard will be the guys to make a 15-20 minute long moba game versus everyone else's 30-60 minute matches.
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Utnayan

I Love Utnayan he’s awesome
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Yeah just like how WoW had to compete with EQ by having XP loss, forced grouping and slow levelling amirite?
Well, to be fair. we are not talking an MMORPG here. We are discussing what has become a multi-million dollar professional gaming tournament arena for PvP.

I'm sure they will do just fine though.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
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Didnt you get into lol like a month ago? I've played dota since 2005 or 6 and the last thing they should do is mimic the competition. League has already established itself as the semicasual and dota the unforgiving harder game of the two. Blizzard needs to do something similar to what pyros said and create a new way to play the genre.

Other companies have tried to simplify or expand the gameplay but it falls flat because no one makes an engine as responsive as blizzard... Just look at D3 for proof.
I started playing about 5 months ago, but I don't see how that makes a difference? Did I somehow insult your dota heritage or something?
 

Balroc

Molten Core Raider
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The trailer for this game does not live up to the Blizzard standard for trailers.
 

Mures

Blackwing Lair Raider
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I have no idea what the fuck this means?
It means blizzard is known for taking something, reinventing/simplifying so it appeals to the masses and profiting.

The trailer for this game does not live up to the Blizzard standard for trailers.
Silence! Best trailer ever! Carbots is amazing. If you've ever played sc you should check out his yt channel.
 

Ravishing

Uninspiring Title
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I imagine in will be successful but I can't imagine it pulling from LoL unless Blizzard can invest a lot in eSports like Riot is doing and Blizzard would need to up their game in terms of updates & champ releases. LoL does a really good job at rebooting old champs and adding new ones and doing balance updates frequently enough to keep the game fresh and by creating the LCS they've really made eSports explode in NA. I have no doubt that Blizzard has the resources to do the same. Obviously they have experience in eSports with SC2 & WoW but it seems like it's outside companies that have made it work with Blizzard's support rather than Blizzard taking the reigns themselves like Riot has done.

As with anything of this nature, the masses tend to control where people go, no social media company can overtake Facebook, search can't overtake Google, mmos can't overtake WoW... I will be very surprised if another company can surpass LoL in the moba space.

It means blizzard is known for taking something, reinventing/simplifying so it appeals to the masses and profiting.
And DoTA players already say LoL is simplified too much
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Also, the masses are already playing LoL...



I liked the trailer.
 

an accordion_sl

shitlord
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I started playing about 5 months ago, but I don't see how that makes a difference? Did I somehow insult your dota heritage or something?
You said the game had to have trilanes and a very specific flow (that is completely different in lol). Trilanes only got popular about 4 or 5 years ago and the latest dota2 patch just destroyed the whole concept.

One thing icefrog is not afraid to do is make huge changes to the game that affect competitive play quite a bit...so for you to say there are specific staples that need to exist is just flat out wrong.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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You said the game had to have trilanes and a very specific flow (that is completely different in lol). Trilanes only got popular about 4 or 5 years ago and the latest dota2 patch just destroyed the whole concept.

One thing icefrog is not afraid to do is make huge changes to the game that affect competitive play quite a bit...so for you to say there are specific staples that need to exist is just flat out wrong.
I don't think he meant tri-lane as in 3/1/1 setup. I think he meant tri-lane as in having a top/mid/bot.
 

Ravishing

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lol.. yea... I don't know how you got tri-lane from that post. Pretty sure he meant the map layout, and he's right imo.
 

Draegan_sl

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It means blizzard is known for taking something, reinventing/simplifying so it appeals to the masses and profiting.
Was known. I would agree with you if DOTA and a bunch of other shitty games were on the only games on the market. However Riot did what WOW did to EQ already in my opinion.
 

Draegan_sl

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You said the game had to have trilanes and a very specific flow (that is completely different in lol). Trilanes only got popular about 4 or 5 years ago and the latest dota2 patch just destroyed the whole concept.

One thing icefrog is not afraid to do is make huge changes to the game that affect competitive play quite a bit...so for you to say there are specific staples that need to exist is just flat out wrong.
Oh I see the confusion. I wasn't talking about the meta (which should change and evolve over time), I was talking about the actual design of the physical map. Just like whenever a new football league comes into existence (AFL back in the day, XFL, USFL etc.) they don't try to change the shape of the football field from a rectangle to a circle.
 

Pyros

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Oh I see the confusion. I wasn't talking about the meta (which should change and evolve over time), I was talking about the actual design of the physical map. Just like whenever a new football league comes into existence (AFL back in the day, XFL, USFL etc.) they don't try to change the shape of the football field from a rectangle to a circle.
But the 3 lanes is something you can definitely change, including creeps, towers and everything that goes with it. If you reduce dota-likes to their most primary form, why they are fun and why people play them: many heroes/champions with unique abilities, similar to fighter games you don't have to play the same thing everytime and stuff takes time to learn, multiplayer teambased pvp, rpg elements. Laning and lanes are just a medium to deliver the RPG elements and act as a structure for the pvp. There's other ways to do this, that don't include lanes, creeps(I mean creeps that spawn every 30secs and go suicide into the enemy's tower) and other similar basic concepts. The RPG progression can be done entirely on jungle creeps as I pointed out before, which leads to earlier conflicts too(kinda like how shit happens when you smoke into enemy jungle for a lvl 1 fight or go for lvl 1 rosh or in lol case when you try to contest the enemy's blue). Lanes in that cases are redundant and don't really add anything. The towers can simply be replaced by doors you have to break to get into the enemy base, without creeps or multiple lanes. You could still have multiple doors to offer various points of entry which is good design, but that doesn't mean you need creeps there or towers outside to protect, or they can instead be capture points instead for example, see Dominion stuff.

There's many ways to go to reduce the system to an even simpler formula where you spend way less time fighting AIs and more fighting players. That's a bit similar to pure mobas, like Bloodline Champions for example, but I don't think a pure combat arena is as fun either so you still want to keep some rpg elements(leveling, gold, items), you can however massively simplify them and reduce the amount of time it takes to reach the pvp part of the game. 5-7mins of killing creeps in groups with small skirmishes, then 5-10mins of fighting people for map control/bigger items/finishing the game. You'd lose a lot of depth obviously but that's not a problem for the type of game that they'd want to design, similar to how Hearthstone is a joke compared to MTG but still has a lot more success.

If they try to do a real competitors I think they'll have a lot of trouble finding room against LoL, but if they do something different enough that is even more casual, not necessarily in terms of how easy it is to play, but in terms of time investment, then maybe there's something to be done. Could also end up being complete shit though.
 

Draegan_sl

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Well obviously if they wanted to change it they could, I never said that they couldn't or shouldn't. But, in the context of competing with LOL or DOTA2 they have to use the same playing field because it's what everyone is used to seeing and watching. It's the common point of reference.

If you are launching a MOBA in 2014 you're going to be instantly compared to LOL and then DOTA2. That is what you're competing with.

Like people have mentioned, Riot has tried different games and they've had limited success and popularity.

What they can do is change how the game is played within the map. Map can be bigger/smaller/different jungle shapes. Creeps can vary. You can have roaming baron/dragons. You can input ways to send out different kinds of creeps for the other team to deal with. There are a ton of things they can do to change up the flow of the game. It'll be interesting to see what they do and if it's successful.
 

Flight

Molten Core Raider
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Kotick got a sniff of the MOBA PvP for WoW and burnt half the staff at the stake for not monetizing it enough. They came up with this instead.
 

Neph_sl

shitlord
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When it was called Blizzard DOTA, it was essentially just a SC2 mod, but if they ported it to the D3 engine and made it feel more visceral, I'd totally play this.
 

Tenks

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Popularity will shift to what the professional players are doing. I don't follow the LoL scene but I'm sure every major tournament is played on the standard MOBA layout map. I'm sure if Riot completely switched to make their "standard" map something with one central lane and huge jungles on the side and all the professionals played that then suddenly that would be the #1 map. Trying to say that Riot introduces some half-baked maps and just says "have at it" to the public isn't a fair metric for will it work or not for games inheritently competitive.